Mr. Speaker, I take this time for the purpose of inquiring of the majority leader the schedule for the coming week. Mr. Speaker, I yield to the distinguished majority leader, the gentleman from Texas…
Mr. Speaker, I take this time for the purpose of inquiring of the majority leader the schedule for the coming week.
Mr. Speaker, I yield to the distinguished majority leader, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DeLay).
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I thank the gentleman for informing us of that schedule.
Mr. Leader, tomorrow is a day on which the conference report on the budget is supposed to be adopted, as you well know. However, the House is yet to appoint conferees. When might we appoint conferees, given the fact that we are already behind schedule?
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I thank the gentleman. Obviously he articulates reasons that he believes this bill is an important piece of legislation.
In light of the fact that the Speaker has not yet decided who he wants to appoint as conferees, does the gentleman have any thought as to when we might contemplate having the conference committee meet and then, of course, the conference report on the floor? I ask that from two perspectives: one, as the representative of the party who would like to know what is going on, as I am sure the gentleman would as well; and, secondly as an appropriator.
As the gentleman knows, until the conference committee report is adopted, it has the appropriations committees somewhat in limbo as it relates to allocations to the committees and then allowing us to make the 302(b) allocations.
Mr. Speaker, I yield further to my friend in terms of what expectations he might have as to timing from this point to when we might adopt a budget, in light of the fact it is my understanding from the staff of the gentleman from California (Mr. Lewis) that there is hope that we will start to mark up bills sometime in mid-May. I do not know whether the majority leader has the same understanding or not.
I would be pleased to yield to my friend, the gentleman from California, the distinguished chairman of the Committee on Appropriations.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I appreciate the gentleman's observation.
My presumption is then, Mr. Chairman, before he leaves the floor, my presumption would be, for the Members of the House and also for the members of the Committee on Appropriations, that the Committee on Appropriations will proceed as if the House numbers were the numbers? Am I correct on that? I yield to the gentleman.
I yield to the gentleman from Texas.
Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman.
Reclaiming my time, the business that the gentleman from Texas has set forth for next week is the energy business. Given the schedule the gentleman has just announced, would the gentleman expect the bill to be on the floor both Wednesday and Thursday?
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I thank the leader.
Given the time that is allocated to this bill, I presume, as the Leader has apparently indicated, that it is the expectation of the Committee on Rules to have a full amendatory process. My expectation is you are not going to have a fully open rule but that you would have some modified open rule. Am I correct on that?
I yield to the gentleman from Texas.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, some of us do not believe that is quite as obvious as the gentleman does.
I yield back to the gentleman.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I appreciate the Leader's observation. I know that, on our side, we had a discussion on that bill this morning. All of us believe the energy bill is a very, very important piece of legislation. All of us are concerned about the gas prices that are confronting all of our constituents. I have a number of employees who commute significant distances. Although they live relatively close by, it is a 45-minute commute in traffic and a lot of gas, and they spend a lot of money on gasoline. In addition to that, energy independence, of course, is part of our national security. So we are hopeful that we will fashion a bill in a bipartisan way that we can see passed and signed by the President.
Mr. Speaker, the last item I would ask the Majority Leader about is, as the gentleman knows, the ethics process in the House is essentially at a standstill. The gentleman has made that observation, obviously; and we have made that observation as well. Efforts to move the ethics process forward have failed so far, both in committee and on the floor, when virtually all of the Members on the gentleman's side of the aisle, now twice, have voted to table motions that would have provided for the appointment of a bipartisan task force to make recommendations to restore public confidence in the ethics process.
As the gentleman knows, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin), he was sitting to my left here, although he is now to my right; maybe he is running for office and wants to position himself; but the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin) and Mr. Livingston performed an outstanding service for this House in coming together and adopting and presenting, proposing a bipartisan ethics process. We had that in place, as the gentleman knows, and it was changed, we believe, in a partisan fashion.
We oppose that change, as the gentleman knows, as does the former chairman of the Committee on Standards of Official Conduct, the gentleman from Colorado (Mr. Hefley). He and the gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. Mollohan) have a bill, and that bipartisan resolution has now 207 cosponsors, and that would simply return the ethics rules to where they were, adopted bipartisanly, proposed bipartisanly by the Livingston-Cardin Committee, and it would return to a place where we believe the Committee on Standards of Official Conduct would not be at impasse.
We are also concerned about, as the gentleman knows, the chairman's proposition that we have a partisan division now of the ethics staff, which heretofore has been a bipartisan, I might even say nonpartisan, staff.
I would respectfully inquire, given that background, which the gentleman knows, of course, if and when we might see House Joint Resolution 131 on the floor. As I say, it has 207 cosponsors. It reflects the bipartisan agreement of the Livingston-Cardin committee and the bipartisan vote of this House some years ago in adopting the Livingston-Cardin option.
In the alternative, of course, when we might find an opportunity to support a bipartisan commission that could again look at this and try to get us off the dime.
I know I have mentioned a number of points, Mr. Leader, but I know that the gentleman believes it is important personally and institutionally. I have worked with the gentleman institutionally. We want to see this institution not mired in ethical questions of our side or of the gentleman's side. I think that either direction might get us there.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Leader respectfully if he thinks that we might proceed in either direction, or perhaps both, and I yield to my friend.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I thank the Leader for his thoughtful response. We have a difference of view on the change that was made from the Livingston-Cardin and House-adopted ethics rules which provided for an investigation of any Member to go forward unless a majority of the committee disposed of it. That meant, as the gentleman knows, that it would have to be bipartisan, because the committee is equally divided, so we would have to have at least one other Member, assuming one party was united on either side, one other Member of the other party to join in the disposition of a case. And if that disposition did not occur, an investigation would go forward.
Unfortunately, it is our perception, I say to the gentleman, that what the Speaker, because the gentleman said the Speaker wanted to protect the Members, what the Speaker has done from our perspective and, we think, from the perspective of many is created a process where on the inaction of the committee, based upon a tie vote so that a partisan group can stop an investigation, that the investigation will thereby be dismissed. So it turned the process 180 degrees, from having a bipartisan vote to dismiss to now having a partisan vote or a bipartisan vote necessary to proceed.
We believe that undermines the protection of the institution. We believe that that was not necessary in order to protect individuals and Members, which we think is an appropriate due-process protection.
I certainly will, but let me make one additional point. Every previous change that I know of, and you and I have been here about the same time. I have been here perhaps a couple of years longer than you. Every change that I know of in the ethics rules have been affected by a bipartisan agreement until this one. There were only a few votes, I think we were almost unanimous on our side, which is not unusual, which is why the ethics rules has historically been separate and apart, perhaps in the rules package, but agreed to in a bipartisan fashion. And that is my concern.
And I will be glad to yield my friend.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I thank again the gentleman for his thoughtful remarks. We see it differently, Mr. Leader. What we have created is the ability of both sides to stop investigations in their tracks. Both sides. Our side, if we block up, and our five say you are not going to investigate Steny Hoyer, they can do it. Formerly they could not do that. And I believe your analogy is not apt, and I want to tell you why I think so, Mr. Leader.
The investigation is the gathering of facts, not the charging, not the finding of involvement. We do not use the term ``guilt,'' but the finding of involvement. It is an investigation to gather the facts from which the decision-makers, whether it be a grand jury or a petit jury, whether it be a judge or whether it be a prosecutor who determines whether to bring an indictment. Once those decision-makers have the facts, they can then make a rational decision, we hope.
What we have done, however, in changing the rules, which were adopted in a bipartisan fashion, is to allow either side to preclude the investigator from gathering the facts. That is as if we could preclude the police or the FBI or others from gathering facts that they would then, in turn, submit to a decision-maker, whether a grand jury to bring an indictment, a prosecutor to bring a charge, a petit jury to bring a conviction. I think that is inaccurate
I certainly will yield to the leader, but before I do, do you see my point, Mr. Leader? Either one of us could protect ourselves. Either one of us, your side could protect yourselves by your five holding firm. Our side could protect ourselves by holding firm. That may protect us individually, but our position is it does not protect the institution, and that is what our concern is. I yield to my friend.
No, sir. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Leader.
I want to apologize to the gentleman.
I will yield back to him.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time.
I will be glad to yield to the gentleman from Maryland.
Mr. Speaker, I would reclaim my time and certainly yield to the leader.
Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, just for 1 minute.
Very briefly.
I would be glad to yield to the leader.
Mr. Leader, we obviously have a disagreement in the perceptions as to what the rule does and does not do. I think both you and I are very concerned about the reputation and integrity of this House. I think you share that view and I share that view. It is my suggestion that resolving this in a way that is bipartisan will be productive for the House.
Mr. Hefley, the former chairman, I do not agree with Mr. Hefley on a lot of things, but I do agree with his perception of how we protect the integrity of the House. There may be people on my side of the aisle who agree with your perception and not mine. I understand that. The fact is, though, that it would be in the best interest of this House and this country for us to resolve these matters in a bipartisan way either through, as our leader has proposed, a commission to be a joint commission equally divided, as was the Livingston-Cardin commission, or, in the alternative, to consider H.R. 131.
The leader is absolutely right, and I made that aside, as you recall. We did vote against the rules package, but we had agreed to the components, and there was no controversy about the ethics component in the rules package. There were other things with which we disagreed, obviously, but that was an agreement, and it was reached in a bipartisan fashion.
This was not reached in a bipartisan fashion. And, yes, as both parties usually did, I can remember, it is getting more difficult to remember, but I can remember when we were in charge and your side used to vote unanimously against our rules package and we pretty much do the same because we have some disagreements. But there was agreement on the rules package as it related to the Committee on Standards of Official Conduct, and the reason for that is because both sides felt it to be very important.
Reclaiming my time, I think we both agree on that.
The gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin) wanted to say something, but I wanted to say you were right on the process. I was incorrect on the process. It was a separate vote on a separate package, and you are right that I and the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin) and others voted against it. It was not on these provisions as you know because a change was made, not in a partisan sense, according to the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin).
Mr. Speaker, I yield to the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin) to explain his perception and recollection of the process.
Reclaiming my time, Mr. Leader, I thank you for taking the time. I know you did not have to, and you have been considerate of this discussion because you and I know it is an important discussion. Because it is an important discussion, I would hope that we could move forward to try to get us off this impasse that we have for whatever reasons. And whatever is right or wrong, it needs to be resolved.
There are two suggestions here of how to resolve it. There may be other ways to resolve it. But I would hope that in the coming days we could move towards, in a bipartisan fashion, move towards resolving this issue.