Mr. President, I understand Senator Chambliss is on his way over. I will yield when he gets here. I want to respond briefly to what the Senator from Montana said. I have respect for the Senator. He…
Mr. President, I understand Senator Chambliss is on his way over. I will yield when he gets here. I want to respond briefly to what the Senator from Montana said. I have respect for the Senator. He is one of the Members who is always constructive in trying to move the process forward in a way that is usually very bipartisan. But I do believe on the issue of the Medicaid accounts, he is inconsistent with where we ended up.
The Medicaid issue is really at the essence of this effort to reduce debt through this deficit reduction bill. Why is that? Well, because we know as we look into the outyears, the biggest problem we have as a Federal Government from the standpoint of fiscal policy is that we have these huge obligations. Yesterday I said it was $44 trillion. I am told by the staff that the Comptroller's office said it is $51 trillion of unfunded liability that the American people--especially our children and our children's children--are going to have to pay in order to support the retired population that is now called the baby boom generation. Of that $51 trillion--a trillion dollars is an impossible number to conceive, and $51 trillion is absolutely inconceivable. But of that number, the vast majority of it, up to $30 trillion, is health care costs in two accounts, Medicare and Medicaid.
Why is that? It is because the retiring generation is so huge that the demands it is going to put on the system are so dramatic that essentially it is going to bankrupt our children if we do not do something about addressing it. We know that by the year 2030, under the present flow of spending, the Federal Government, which today takes about 20 percent of the gross national product for everything we do-- national defense, education, laying out roads, environmental protection, health care, and veterans care--because of this retiring generation, 20 percent of the gross national product will have to be spent on 3 accounts: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. There is no way you can tax your way out of this unless you are willing to dramatically increase the taxes on our children and our children's children. You have to reform these programs.
This bill put our toe in the water, hopefully up to our ankles, on one of those three major entitlement accounts, specifically Medicaid. The proposals on this bill on Medicaid were proposals that essentially came to us as a Congress from the Governors in a bipartisan commission. The Governors got together and said, How can we improve the Medicaid Program? How can we give more services to more children but do it more effectively, thus costing less money and having the rate of growth of Medicaid slow a little bit. They came forward with a number of proposals which we have essentially adopted in this bill.
The practical effect of that is we will expand coverage to children. It is expected that about a million children who are not covered today under Medicaid will be picked up under this bill as a result of giving the Governors more flexibility.
As the Senator from Montana said, the concept that we are savaging the Medicaid accounts during the Christmas season is not defensible on its face. We will spend $1.2 trillion over this next 5 years on Medicaid. We are talking about reducing Medicaid spending during that period by $5 billion.
To give you a chart that reflects what type of reduction that is, the green line is Medicaid spending. The red line is Medicaid spending after this event, after this passes. There can be no difference because Medicaid spending goes up so dramatically during this period. When you reduce it by $5 billion, you literally are not dramatically reducing the Medicaid benefits--literally. The numbers still go up. You cannot even calculate it in terms of a digit. For example, Medicaid spending is going to go up 40 percent during the next 5 years. After this bill, Medicaid spending is going to go up 40 percent in the next 5 years. So this representation that we are doing some sort of terrible event to Medicaid is absurd on its face because the numbers don't defend it. What is in this bill that is important to Medicaid is the new policy which is going to give the Governors more flexibility, which is going to keep Medicaid from being abused and gamed by people, people who are worth a million dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars, basically taking their obligations to pay for their retirement and putting it on the American taxpayer generally. That will end. Call it spend down. Governors will be given flexibility to try to reorganize their Medicaid Programs so they can deliver more services to more people.
I have to disagree strongly with the representation that somehow we have cut Medicaid. We have not cut it. The facts are that Medicaid is going to grow 40 percent over the 5-year period. I wanted to get a little more of a reduction in the rate of growth. I wanted to see us do $15 billion, but we compromised, as a result of a lot of different influences around here, at $5 billion on a $1.1 trillion base. It does not even show up as a statistical change over those 5 years.
But what is important in this bill is the policy, the policy which in later years, and hopefully as we move through this period, will allow Governors to deliver this program more effectively to more people at less of a rate of growth. We have to address this. We can continue to bury our heads in the sand, and we have done that now for 8 years. We have not addressed the entitlement accounts for 8 years. This is the first time we tried to step on this area, which represents 60 percent of Federal spending, but if we continue to bury our heads in the sand and not pass this small step forward in the area of trying to put better policy in place for these health care programs, all we are doing is saying to our children we don't have the courage to step up and try to give you a chance to have a decent lifestyle. We are going to take advantage of you. We are going to tax you so when you want to send your kids to college, you will not be able to afford it or when you want to buy a house, you won't be able to afford it because your tax burden will be so high to support this generation, it will be so huge.
It is not right for policymakers to take this position. We should step onto this turf called entitlement spending. That is what this bill does and that is why I think we should pass it.
I do not think Senator Chambliss has arrived, so I yield the floor.
Mr. President, that is a good outline. I note that if Members want to speak, it would be nice if they would give us a call and tell us they want to speak, and we will make sure they have time to speak. We want to make sure everybody has the time they need to get their points across.
Do I understand that the Senator is yielding time off the bill on his side to Senator Chambliss?
Mr. President, I yield whatever time Senator Chambliss uses.
Mr. President, we are going have a series of speakers.
I wish to respond quickly to the point of the Senator from Massachusetts on a couple of areas.
First, the purpose of the deficit reduction bill is to slow the rate of growth of entitlement programs. It is a net bill. In this bill, there are very major initiatives, especially in the area of education, which are new and fully paid for. There is $40 billion in debt reduction, but the actual reductions in the bill exceed that by a considerable amount.
The new programmatic activity which is fully paid for in the student area is $9 billion of additional funds for student activity.
The Senator from Massachusetts says we should have the best and the brightest have an opportunity to participate and go to good colleges. We agree with that. In fact, we are doing something about it. We are following the proposals of John Adams, a Massachusetts individual of note who helped our country get started and who considered public education and education generally to be the essence of how the American dream is going to be fulfilled. He was totally committed to a meritocracy.
We are essentially saying in this bill, by creating this new program called SMART, if you are a low-income student and you are focusing on math and science, we are going to give you a lot of help. If you can perform well in those two areas, you are going to get an opportunity to really succeed in this country. But we are going to give you the support you need to succeed. We are going to give you $4,000 a year on top of your Pell grant, on top of scholarships, on top of your borrowing capabilities. You are potentially getting $4,000 a year in college if you study math and science and have a low income.
We forgive $4 billion in student loans. We are going to reduce student loan taxes and fees by $4 billion, and we are going to provide $1.9 billion of loan forgiveness for people who go into special areas that we consider important, specifically teaching, primarily in these special education areas. This bill structures a $17,500 loan forgiveness program for people who go into special education teaching. We recognize special education teachers are, first, needed, and second, they are put under tremendous stress. If we can encourage people to go into that field, we want to.
This bill has some very good policy in the area of education. Sure, it isn't as strong as what left the Senate, which was actually worked out within the HELP Committee. That happened with the House. The House was zero, we were at eight, and we ended up essentially at four. This so-called compromise in that $4 billion is a lot of good initiatives in the area of the SMART Program.
I yield to the Senator if he has a question. For the purposes of a question, I will yield time off his time, of course.
Should I charge this to the Senator's time? Essentially, I am clarifying the Senator's point. I will do this on my time.
Essentially, the origination fees are being eliminated under this bill.
I point out that the initiatives which are in this bill are initiatives which had bipartisan support, the SMART Program specifically. But the new grant and aid for low-income college students is about $3.7 billion in this bill. Lower fees charged to students will cause students to gain about $4 billion in this bill. The program which extends the loan forgiveness program, as I just mentioned, to a number of different categories will generate about $1.9 billion in this bill. That adds up to about $9 billion of initiative in this bill.
We think this bill has some pretty positive initiatives.
As to the loan rates, I didn't insist on staying at this loan rate. I think that came from the other side of the aisle. Did it not? I believe it did. I think the Senator from Massachusetts is the person who basically has locked us into this fixed rate when it should be a variable rate. The variable rate would save our students a lot more money. Unfortunately, my idea of going to the variable rate was rejected in committee by, I believe, the Senator from Massachusetts, who wanted to stay at the fixed rate. That costs how many billions? Over $5 billion, according to my staff. Now, that is a back-of-the- envelope guess, but that is probably in the ballpark.
As to rates, I note to the Senator from Massachusetts, I disagree with the policy in the bill, yes. I wish we had gone to my policy and saved another $5 billion. That would be up to $14 billion to save students.
Does the Senator want to outline who he thinks is speaking next?
And Senator Coburn.
Reserving the right to object, is it the Senator's position that if the unanimous consent request was amended to be a 1- year extension, the Senator would support that unanimous consent request?
One year.
Reserving the right to object.
Reserving the right to object, if there is an orphan on the floor today, or in this city today, I would suggest it is the Senator from New York. As I made the point yesterday, if he wished to get to a vote on the PATRIOT Act it could have occurred. But the Senator from New York would not allow cloture to be invoked. And now the Senator from New York and the leadership of the Democratic Party are coming to the floor claiming that because they would not allow the PATRIOT Act to be voted on, they are prejudiced and that they should not be accused of killing the PATRIOT Act.
Well, obviously they killed the PATRIOT Act when they did not allow it to be voted on. That is a situation such as you referred to, where the individual killed his parents and then threw himself on the mercy of the court claiming he was an orphan. So if the Senator does not wish to extend the act for a year, then I would say his statements are Pyrrhic.
First, I am going to object, and then I will yield. But I will not yield on my time. I will yield on the time of the Senator from North Dakota.
There is an objection.
As long as the time comes off the bill on the Democratic side.
Mr. President, at this point, I will yield to the Senator from Colorado.
Well, I guess we can certainly give you 30 seconds. But I may take a minute and a half back.
Mr. President, prior to yielding to the Senator from Colorado, I am going to take a minute and a half, which would be the minute Senator Schumer had and the half minute
which we so graciously gave the Senator from North Dakota.
I would simply point out that the Democratic leader said:
We killed the Patriot Act.
So that is where the body lies. It does not lie on this side of the aisle. It does not lie at the White House. The body lies right there because of the fact that we were not allowed to go to a vote on final passage. That is the way the institution works. The Senator from New York said: Well, we are taking our marbles and leaving. We are not taking our marbles and leaving. We had 50-plus votes willing to continue the PATRIOT Act under the new law, as it has been drafted, as it has gone through the committee process. Fifty-plus votes, that is a majority.
What happened, however, was the other side of the aisle did not get it exactly the way they wanted it, so they are going to kill it. That is where the body lies.
I think we have continued this long enough. We actually do not have the PATRIOT Act inside the Deficit Reduction Act yet, but it is possible we could end up there before we finish.
Senator Allard has been very gracious in allowing us to take from his time. I yield to Senator Allard as much time as he may use.
I move to amend the unanimous consent request as follows: That we call up the PATRIOT Act which is pending at the desk, have 2 hours of debate, and go to final passage.
Mr. President, reserving the right to object, I notice that in the middle of the debate on the deficit reduction bill we are hearing a number of people debating what has been debated to a considerable degree, which is the issue of the fact that the PATRIOT Act, which is pending at the desk, will not be allowed to go to a final vote by the Democratic membership of the Senate. I would simply say this, that I guess it brings to mind the Shakespearean line, I think it was from ``Julius Caesar''--it might have been one of his other wonderful plays--methinks he doth protest too much.
The corpse lies on their side of the aisle. They are the ones who have killed the PATRIOT Act, if they do not agree to vote it, which is sitting at the desk, which has gone through the committee process, which has been amended, which has been brought forward, and which has a majority of the Senate in favor of it. So I suppose it is a diversion from the deficit bill, which we should be debating, to bring these items up, but I think it is more simply an attempt to try to move the blame for the responsibility for what looks like is going to be the ending of the PATRIOT Act at the end of this year. I think that is unfortunate.
Reserving the right to object, which is my right.
I am reserving my right to object.
The Chair has an obligation, I believe, to allow me to speak.
I will object.
Mr. President, the PATRIOT Act has been inserted into this debate, which is unfortunate, but I do think it is important to make a couple of points in response to the Senator from Michigan because there is misrepresentation here, in my opinion, as to the characterization of the activity.
The majority of the Senate has said it wants to pass the PATRIOT Act which is at the desk. The Senator from Michigan has refused to allow us to take up that act, as has the vast majority of her party--although there were a couple of folks on our side who I believe voted that way. So the issue is not that the majority of the Senate is opposed to the PATRIOT Act at the desk; the issue is the minority of the Senate is not going to allow the PATRIOT Act to come to a vote in the Senate and thus the PATRIOT Act will expire. The only reasonable analysis of that situation is the expiration is a result of the minority of the Senate, led by a fairly large number of the Democratic membership of the Senate, desiring to put form over substance and not allow the PATRIOT Act to a final vote and, as a result, forcing the expiration of the PATRIOT Act.
They cannot now come to the floor and say, Oh, but we didn't mean it. We killed the PATRIOT Act, but we didn't mean it.
The fact is, this bill which is at the desk has bipartisan support, has gone through the committee process, and is the proper way to deal with the PATRIOT Act.
I suppose we can stay here all day and debate the PATRIOT Act, but actually this is a deficit reduction act and I hope we will get back to it.
At this point, do you have any speakers?
Mr. CONRAD addressed the Chair.
Mr. President, I have not yielded the floor yet.
I ask if we are going to return to speakers?
Senator Stevens is here to speak. How much time do you require?
So we can get it fixed up so we can get a time agreement?
All right.
Then we come back to Senator Coburn.
The Senator from North Dakota has risen and spoken, obviously, with enthusiasm and energy about his position. But I think that there are a couple of points which need to be made.
First of all, on this Byrd issue, the Byrd trade rule issue, let us talk about what that really is. Where did it come from to begin with? It came in the middle of the night. It was put in an appropriations bill a few years ago. Who does it benefit? It benefits a very few specific industries in this country that get the windfall from an unfair trade practice. In other words, what happens under this rule is that $3.2 billion is paid to a few specific industries. In fact, one specific company got 39 percent of the funds up until this year. Who would get it if it were not in place? The American taxpayer would get that money. That money would go to the Treasury.
It is not about cutting that money out of the budget; it is about having that money flow to the Treasury so the American taxpayer has the right to that money so it can be used either to reduce the debt or it can be used for programmatic activity that is necessary, such as national defense, instead of having it be a special interest event which goes to benefit very few industries in this country and a very specific number of companies within those industries. Quite honestly, I would not be surprised if some of those companies did not have some sort of headquarters in this building right here that get that $3 billion.
In addition to that, this $3.2 billion, because of the insistence of a couple of Members in this Senate, has been kept in, so it is still flowing to those specific companies. So the taxpayer is still not getting the benefit of that money that the taxpayer should get.
Prospectively, the rule has been changed, as it should be changed. Why should it be changed? Well, the Senator from North Dakota sort of passed over this a little quickly. The WTO ruled against us. It said: You cannot give that money to specific industries and specific companies. It said: You cannot do that.
Maybe the Senator from North Dakota does not want us to be a member of the WTO, but we are a member of the WTO. We use the WTO aggressively to try to defend our trade interests around the globe. They are the arbiter. They are the ones we go to when something goes wrong and our companies get maltreated. So it is a little hard to say to the WTO: We want to use you to enforce a dumping procedure against Japan, China or Singapore, but when you find that we have violated the World Trade Organization's laws because we are giving money specifically to one or two companies in this country in violation of those laws, well, you
cannot do that. You cannot tell us how to do things.
So what does the WTO do? The WTO now assesses fines against other American companies--I think it totals to something over $100 million annually--which American products, produced in this country, are now having to pay, which make those products less competitive, because we continue to violate the WTO and give this money, instead of to the taxpayers of America, instead of putting it in the Treasury where it should be, thus reducing the debt, to a couple of companies that have the influence to get it across this floor.
I do not find a whole lot of persuasiveness in the argument of the Senator from North Dakota on this point, but he won. The $3.2 billion is going to flow out of the door to specific companies, in violation of WTO rules, will stay in place, and other American manufacturers will be prejudiced because they will be hit with a fine by the WTO, which is a legitimate fine.
The second point the Senator makes is, he says, Oh, we are cutting the subsidies to students. I think he said $12 billion. That also is inaccurate. There is no reduction of subsidies to students. In fact, we expand the programs, the Pell grant program, and we create a new program for math and science. What we do is what we should do, and we need to do it before the end of the year, and that is we reduce the windfall that is coming to lenders because of the way the rules are presently set up. That is $12 billion.
Again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of those lender companies had clearinghouses down in the Cayman Islands that he is complaining about. But he is defending them now because he is saying we should not make that change.
If, by the end of this year, we do not change the rules as to how we calculate the lender activity to students in this country, lenders will get I think it is a $7 billion windfall. It might be more, actually. It does not go to the students. It will not help the students. All it does is help a group of lenders because the law is structured in a way which basically benefits them. We tried to change it. We were not able to permanently change it last year, but we now do have the permanent change in this bill. And, by the way, it was bipartisan. That proposal, because it is so obviously fair and the right thing to do, was reported out of the HELP Committee unanimously. This alleged $12 billion event that the Senator from North Dakota has decided to highlight as a corporate subsidy to the disadvantage of students is just the opposite. We are cutting a corporate subsidy to advantage students. The only debate between myself and Senator Kennedy, who was actually supportive to the policy relative to the reduction of the subsidy to the lenders, is how the money that is raised from that subsidy should be spent. We believe it should go to debt reduction, and we believe it should go to the expansion of student loans. He wants more money to student loans. We want to have a balance and we have a balance.
On both those policy points, the Senator from North Dakota, in my humble opinion, has misrepresented the character of the bill--$3.2 billion is flowing to special corporations for a special interest benefit under this bill. It should be going to the taxpayers. But the policy which energized that is at least being changed so at least prospectively that is not going to happen, and other companies in this country that are being fined by the WTO because of violations of the WTO standard will actually have that relief in the outyears. And the subsidies which, if we do not act before the end of this year, are flowing to corporate lenders are going to be moved over to students, to benefit students, or to deficit reduction.
I yield to the Senator from Oklahoma.
Will the Senator yield?
Mr. President, 39 percent of this benefit went to 1 company, 39 percent; and $2 billion of the $3 billion that is going to go out of this is going to go to a small group of companies that deal in lumber. Those dollars belong to the American taxpayer. They should be in the Federal Government's Treasury. They should be used for deficit reduction. They should be used for initiatives here at the Federal level that are important.
The WTO ruled against us, and if the Senator doesn't like the WTO and doesn't want to be part of the World Trade Organization--we are. It is called a treaty. We have to live by treaties. It is called the rule of law.
And the treaty says we submit issues to the WTO, we debate them. We win sometimes; we lose sometimes. On this issue, the WTO ruled that because we specifically send this money out to specific corporations--and there is only one that got 39 percent. I don't care if there are 700 that maybe got a dollar, there is one that got 39 percent of the benefit--then you are violating the rules of the WTO, and then they assessed us with a fine and our companies now pay that fine and make our goods less competitive.
So not only are our taxpayers losing out because of this language, but the companies that have to compete in the world are losing out. The attack of the Senator from North Dakota on the bill on that point doesn't hold water.
I yield to the Senator from Oklahoma such time as he needs.
Mr. President, I just want to note that the exchange, which was very informative, between the Senator from Arizona and the Senator from Oklahoma was in relationship to the Defense bill, and we are on the deficit reduction bill. Those items which the Senator from Arizona raised--he certainly has a legitimate right to raise them--are not applicable to this bill but applicable to the Defense appropriations conference report. This bill actually reduces the deficit by $40 billion, which is a very positive event.
Mr. President, we are going back and forth. And I think there was a tacit understanding Senator Salazar would be next.
Mr. President, I ask for regular order, that we return to the bill. As I understand it, Senator Specter was speaking in morning business.
My understanding is that Senator Specter asked to speak as in morning business; am I incorrect in that?
It is my understanding that we are now going to Senator Byrd, then Senator Ensign, and then going back to the other side.
Mr. President, what is the time, if the Chair will advise the majority and the minority?
Mr. President, will the Senator yield for a question? I want the body to know, to the extent people are listening outside, the ANWR language is not in this bill. The Senator is speaking to another bill which will follow. Is that correct?
I understand that we would go to Senator Rockefeller next, but in an aside, I simply want to address one or two of the points made by the Senator from New York, who always makes excellent points and is a very constructive member of the HELP Committee. When I was chairman, I enjoyed working with her and I have enjoyed working with her ever since. In fact, as I recall, she actually voted for the language which was reported from the HELP Committee which essentially accomplished what it appears she is concerned about now, which was to take the corporate subsidy that lenders get today under the student loan program and reduce it.
As I have discussed before and discussed with Senator Kennedy, and I think he appreciates this issue, and some of the other folks who brought this issue up, there is no student loan reduction in this bill. Student loans are expanded. We create a whole new program for low- income students who are interested in math and science and we expand the money going into Pell grants. Where there is a reduction in this bill is in the corporate subsidy area for lenders. If we do not pass this bill, as I said earlier, there would be a windfall to corporate lenders of about $7 billion. That is why I said my staff corrected me. They estimate the windfall to lenders would be closer to $18 billion if we do not pass this bill this year and that is a function of the fact that the lenders are getting an artificially high interest rate. We are taking that down. With the money we receive from that--and it comes out of the corporate lenders, not out of the students--we are taking part of this and we are putting it into helping more students, especially low-income students, be able to go to college.
If a teacher teaches special needs kids under IDEA, they can have $17,500 of their loans forgiven under this bill--$17,500 will be forgiven if they go into teaching special needs students because we think that is important. If one is a low-income individual who has done well in high school in math and science and they decide when they go to college that they want to pursue math and science on top of their Pell grant, on top of their student loans, they are going to get a $4,000-a- year grant for the last 2 years they are in college, a big boost for low-income students who pursue math and science. That is where the money has been directed. I think it is the right priority. I suspect that is why the Senator from New York voted for the bill when it passed out of the committee.
What is the order now? Do we go to Senator Talent and then Senator Rockefeller, or Senator Rockefeller and then Senator Talent?
If Senator Rockefeller is ready, why not have the Senator proceed and then we will go to the Senator from Missouri.
The Senator from West Virginia is recognized on Democratic time.
I yield to the Senator from Missouri 10 minutes.
Mr. President, is the time running against both sides?
Mr. President, are we in a quorum call?
I make a point of order a quorum is not present.