Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, I want to begin by again asking the indulgence of the House for my less than usual sartorial splendor, but the cast on my left…
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I want to begin by again asking the indulgence of the House for my less than usual sartorial splendor, but the cast on my left arm would misalign my jacket, and I wouldn't want to wear a suit unless I could do it full justice. So I am wearing a sweater that Mr. Rogers no longer needs.
The bill before us today is a version of a bill that came before this House in October of 2005 after a lot of work by the former chairman, the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Oxley), and many of us now on the committee. That bill passed the House by a vote of 331-90. Many of those who voted in opposition, myself included, were motivated to it by a specific provision regarding the affordable housing fund that is no longer in the bill.
Mr. Chairman, the bill has two major components. First, it significantly increases the strength of the regulator of the two major Federal housing government-sponsored enterprises, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It also deals with the Federal Home Loan System. That was seen as less in need of drastic change. There is, in fact, less change there. There will be an amendment regarding that offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Kanjorski), which I strongly support, to increase public participation in that system. But this is a bill fundamentally about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
There is general agreement among a wide range of parties that this bill, building on the bill that Mr. Oxley brought to the floor, does do what needs to be done in creating a strong regulator. There are some controversial elements here, but very few deal with the powers of the regulator that we have set up. And I am pleased that the Treasury Department, Under Secretary Paulson and Under Secretary Steel, has agreed. In fact, this is a bill which, with regard to regulation and the regulator, is a little bit stronger than the one we passed a few years ago. We had some negotiations. They were useful, and we have a fully empowered regulator here, independently funded and empowered to do whatever needs to be done to deal with any safety and soundness issues that arise from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The most controversial areas of the bill involve a provision that was also in the bill when it last passed, and that is an affordable housing fund. A number of people have argued over the years that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac receive from the Federal Government advantages which help them borrow money cheaply in the market, and that is true. There is a connection between Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the Federal Government. Those who borrow that money thinking that the Federal Government guarantees it are wrong. There is no Federal guarantee implicit, explicit, or any other way. But it is the case that the market does see these entities in a very favorable light and lends them money at a somewhat lower rate than other entities can borrow. The reason for its having been set up that way was to try to help housing, especially home ownership because these entities buy the mortgages and help bring down the cost of mortgages, but they have also been given for years goals by the law where they are particularly to help lower income housing.
Now, a number of people have argued over the years that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's shareholders, and in the past some of their executives, received too large a share of those benefits. The argument was, with some accuracy, that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac benefited very much and not enough of that reached the public.
There are two ways you could deal with that. You could reduce the benefits that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get. Some people have advocated that. Alternatively, you could do what this bill does: leave the existing situation which provides some benefits to them but increase the share of those benefits that go for public purposes. We do that in two ways in this bill: First of all, and this does not appear to be terribly controversial, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have statutorily imposed goals. Some people have said these are private corporations and you shouldn't tell them what to do. Well, we have been doing that for a very long time. They are told that they must, in purchasing mortgages in the secondary market, make certain purchases that
help certain goals, low income housing, et cetera. We increase those goals. Secretary Jackson at HUD had been critical of them for not doing enough. We increase both the mechanism by which they held to those goals and the goals themselves.
But the newly controversial element to this is the Affordable Housing Fund. I say newly controversial because an affordable housing fund virtually identical to this one, financed through a different formula, but essentially the same in the amount of money and in the function, was in the bill that passed the House in October of 2005. At that time, the Republicans in the House voted for it 209-15. Now Members having once had an opinion are not required to hold it forever. But I do note that in October of 2005, 209 Republicans voted for the bill that had an affordable housing fund. Now that the fund has been, in the minds of some, transmogrified into all kinds of things which it is not. In economic terms, it very likely reduces the return, not by a huge amount, to Fannie and Freddie shareholders. Some have argued that it is going to raise the cost of mortgages. But ironically, many of those who argued that this will raise the cost of mortgages have supported even greater restrictions on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, particularly by limiting their portfolios, which would have many, many times greater impact on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's profitability, and therefore, their ability to help mortgages, than the Affordable Housing Fund.
The affordable housing fund takes some of the profit that Fannie and Freddie make, arguably a part of what they get from their Federal benefits, and said that it will be used for the construction of affordable housing. We have a serious crisis in America and a lack of affordable housing. We have been dealing with this for years by vouchers. Vouchers add to the demand for housing, but an annual voucher cannot create new housing, it does not add to the supply. We have a mechanism here where, without impinging on the Federal budget, without adding a penny to the deficit, in an entirely self-paid way, we take some money from Fannie and Freddie which reflects some of the benefit they get from their Federal arrangements and we recycle it into affordable housing. In the first year, all of that money, maybe $500 million, will go to Louisiana and Mississippi under this bill to replace the severe destruction of housing that has not yet been replaced a year and a half after the terrible hurricanes there.
For the future, the bill says it should be used for affordable housing annually, but leads to a later decision by this House and the Senate, I say optimistically, hoping we can get a decision from the Senate, and then to be signed by the President as to how to further distribute it. It creates the concept of an affordable housing fund. But we had in our committee various arguments. Some people wanted it to go through HUD, some through the State housing agencies. I believe that is a decision that we should make collectively, first in our committee, and then on the floor.
But we are not here doing anything other than saying the money will be available for a subsequent decision by the House that it will be spent. We do say that it has to be spent for housing, for bricks and mortar.
And there are going to be amendments that are going to be offered, let me say we tried to put safeguards in here against abuse. There are several amendments being offered, the minority whip has one, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. McCaul, has one, and some others have amendments, that will further tighten the constraints on this fund. I intend to argue for the acceptance of several of those amendments, at least three, that further tighten up the use of the fund. And I believe we will have accomplished that.
The question then will be, given that Fannie and Freddie get great benefits from the Federal Government, given that we have a housing shortage and a budget crunch in this country, does it make sense to take several hundred million dollars of the profits of Fannie and Freddie, which are enhanced by their Federal regulations and rules, and make them available for affordable housing? I believe the answer should be yes.
Virtually every entity involved with housing in America, from low- income housing advocates to the nonprofit and religious groups that help build housing, to the home builders and the realtors and the mortgage bankers, all support the notion of beginning to get the Federal Government back in the business of trying to do some affordable housing.
I hope that we can go forward with the bill. I do note we had 36 amendments; a couple I believe will be ruled nongermane. Nine or 10 I hope will be accepted without any controversy, including about five from each party. I did note that many of the others, about 18 of the others, are various ways of accomplishing three essential goals, making sure that illegal immigrants don't get the housing, either abolishing the fund altogether or restricting it.
I would hope that we could work out among ourselves some kind of representational thing so that we don't have to vote on all 18 amendments, many of which are duplicative of the others. And if we are able to work that out, I believe we will be able to get the bill through.
There is an important decision to be made about affordable housing. I believe many of the other issues the House previously voted on, I don't think there's a lot of controversy. We do have an important, legitimate, philosophic discussion about affordable housing. I am hoping that between us, we can structure things so we will have a couple of strong votes on that and we can send the bill forward.
Mr. Chairman, I submit the following correspondence:
House of Representatives,
Committee on Ways and Means,
Washington, DC, April 25, 2007.
Hon. Barney Frank,
Chairman, Financial Services Committee, Rayburn House Office
Building, Washington, DC.
Dear Barney, I am writing regarding H.R. 1427, the Federal
Housing Reform Act of 2007, which was reported to the House
by the Committee on Financial Services on Wednesday, March
28, 2007.
As you know, a provision within section 144 of H.R. 1427
would provide an exemption for a limited-life enterprise from
Federal taxes, an authority which falls within the
jurisdiction of the Committee on Ways and Means. The Ways and
Means Committee has jurisdiction over all matters concerning
taxes and the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.
In order to expedite this legislation for floor
consideration, the Committee will forgo action on this bill,
and will not oppose the inclusion of tax provisions within
H.R. 1427. This is being done with the understanding that it
does not in any way prejudice the Committee or its
jurisdictional prerogatives on this or similar legislation in
the future.
I would appreciate your response to this letter, confirming
this understanding with respect to H.R. 1427, and would ask
that a copy of our exchange of letters on this matter be
included in the Record.
Sincerely,
Charles B. Rangel,
Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 1 minute.
Mr. Chairman, I am disappointed frankly at a number of inaccuracies in my colleague's statement. In the first place, with regard to Katrina, the bill that we passed had zero money for new construction, and if he will go back, he apparently forgot, he will see we constantly said during the Katrina bill that we intended to provide the new housing construction money through this bill.
His assertion that there is some duplication could not be more wrong. We were very clear then. The Katrina bill dealt with vouchers. It had one 4,500-unit section with regard to some project vouchers. But throughout the Katrina bill, it was clear that it was a two-step process. This was the second step. There is zero duplication. Nothing in that Katrina bill did any significant increase in housing construction.
Secondly, he notes that I and the gentleman from California and the others voted against the bill last time, as I said earlier today, for one specific reason. The Rules Committee, over the objection of the Committee on Financial Services at that time, injected into the housing fund amendments that would have kept the Catholic Church and the Methodists and all the other religious organizations that were interested in building housing from participating.
We had one very specific objection. At that time the fund was going to be administered directly by Fannie and Freddie. There was a fear that they would use it politically. So one specific amendment was put in by the Rules Committee, we weren't even allowed to vote on it on the floor, and it would have restricted religious groups from participating. For that reason only, we voted against the bill. Since this does not allow Fannie and Freddie to spend the funds, that is out there. That is why we are being perfectly consistent in now voting for it.
The gentleman from Alabama, everything he said about the housing fund was in the bill he and 208 other Republicans voted for in 2005. Every single thing.
The gentleman has told me that he is philosophically opposed to the Housing Trust Fund. Then why did they all vote for it, those who share that opposition, 2 years ago?
The final thing, the gentleman from Illinois is here. The gentleman from Alabama inaccurately said we were raising FHA fees. In fact, the FHA under the Bush administration asked us to raise fees. Last year, the House passed a bill that would have allowed them to raise fees. The gentleman from California and I objected to some of those increases. Our bill restricts the FHA's ability to raise fees above what they wanted. In fact, what we got was an amendment at that markup from the gentleman from Illinois substituting last year's bill that most of the Republicans voted for. That would have allowed the FHA to raise fees far more than us.
So I don't understand how the gentleman from Alabama, who voted with the gentleman from Illinois to allow the FHA to raise fees further now blames us when we passed a bill that would have restricted their ability to raise fees above what they wanted. Maybe people got to go back and look at what they voted for and look at what they offered. The staff will have time. We have time to do that.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman from California.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the chairman of the Subcommittee on Capital Markets, the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Kanjorski).
Mr. Speaker, I will yield an additional 2 minutes to the gentleman from California.
Well, it will be if you vote with him.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Maloney), the chairwoman of the Financial Institutions Subcommittee.
Mr. Chairman, may I inquire how much time remains on my side?
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Watt), the Chair of the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes to the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Sires), a member of the committee.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes to the gentleman from New Hampshire (Mr. Hodes), another very able freshman member of the committee.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Lee), an alumni of our committee who despite having left us still thinks of us from time to time, and she's one of the originators of the notion of an Affordable Housing Trust Fund.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes to the gentlewoman from Ohio (Ms. Kaptur), another dedicated advocate for housing in many capacities.
All the people of Ohio are welcome. How much time do I have remaining, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Chairman, I would take it to say that we often focus on what we disagree on. Let's be clear.
We agree on the strongest regulator that you could possibly have and still be workable. The gentleman from Louisiana is here, he was one of those who started on it; the gentleman from Ohio who has left, Mr. Oxley. Many of us worked on this. We will be arguing about the housing fund.
But let's be clear that what this House will be doing overwhelmingly is create a strong regulator. As to the affordable housing fund, I would just say this, the notion that all of this comes out of the mortgages and not out of the shareholders is bad economics. Fannie and Freddie do not have monopoly power such that they can pass on every cost to the customer and absorb none of it themselves.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the bill be printed in the Record and open to amendment at any point.
I thank the gentleman. First of all, let me say, given that our staffs have worked this out, it would be a good thing for neither one of us to mess it up. I have read it over. It does correctly reinforce the point this is not creating any new governmental involvement. We don't want anyone to misinterpret this.
This is not to increase regulation, not to increase any kind of entitlement or entanglement. I thank the gentleman for this initiative. I very much agree this ought to go on the Record as something that is universally agreed to in the Congress.
Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the requisite number of words.
I appreciate the gentleman for offering this. This is the central question we will be debating today, and I realize we are going to be debating it in a number of forums, I hope not all 17 that are offered, but several.
There was a legitimate question here. I have to say I do want to defend my friend, the gentleman from Alabama, from my friend, the gentleman from California, who said that anybody who would support such an idea is advocating socialism. I do not think the gentleman from Alabama was advocating socialism when he joined 208 other Republicans in voting for the Housing Trust Fund 2 years ago. I think that's a little bit excessive.
We have, I think, some economic disputes here. First of all, the notion that all of this money, $500 million, roughly 5 percent of the profits of the two institutions together, the notion that all of it will be passed along to the people who take out the mortgages, the banks and everybody else, incorrectly assumes that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have a degree of pricing power that virtually allows them to set prices however they wish.
In fact, there was a time when they had a very large share of the market, and might have had such monopoly power. They no longer do. There is economic competition. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not the only games in town. The notion that this will all get passed along and none of it go to the shareholders is faulty economics.
In fact, this will come out of the profits of these institutions, and it will, I believe, reduce the return of the shareholders. Now, I think that's legitimate. These are institutions that receive significant benefits because of various Federal laws and the way those laws are interpreted by the market.
We say that they shouldn't keep all of the benefits. By the way, those who believe this ought not just to be opposing the Affordable Housing Fund. We have long had goals of, affordable housing goals, which dictate to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that they must buy certain kinds of loans rather than others. We have got that to the point where they have to give preference to people whose incomes are at 80 percent and medium and below. That also impinges upon the profitability of Fannie Mae.
In other words, the argument is that anything that impinges on the argument of Fannie and Freddie will automatically be passed along to the home buyers. I think that's faulty economics. But if you think that's true, then why are you supporting, I would ask the Members on the other side, the housing goals.
Why would Members be voting for the amendment offered by the gentleman from New Jersey, which would severely restrict the portfolio? Eighty-five percent of the profits of Fannie Mae are being made on the portfolio. Now many on the administration and many on the other side want to severely restrict the portfolio, reduce it or say they can only be used for the lowest income mortgages.
That amendment, which many on the other side apparently plan to vote for, would have a far more serious impact on the profitability of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than on this housing fund by 8, 10 times as much. It is simply inconsistent to argue that you cannot impinge on the profitability of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac without hurting the average mortgage buyer, and then
be for this much more significant impact on the profitability, and the economics are the same.
The argument is no direct pass-through here. The argument is that if you impinge on that profitability, they will raise their prices. First of all, the answer is, of course, they wish. They wish they had that kind of pricing power. I don't think they do.
To the extent that there is some impact, it will be far more greatly achieved if the amendment were to be adopted by the gentleman from New Jersey and other efforts to restrict the portfolio.
The gentleman from Alabama also said we have all these other housing programs. No. We do not have enough programs currently being funded that build affordable housing for families. We have 202 for the elderly. We have 811 for the disabled, both of which the administration has tried to cut back.
We are not building public housing. We have the voucher program. The voucher program, on an annual basis, adds to the demand for housing in a way that does not increase supply. There is not now a generally funded affordable housing construction program for families, for working people.
So the notion, and I would challenge Members who say there is duplication, show me which program this duplicates. It doesn't restrict it to the elderly and the disabled. It is a general family affordable housing program. That's what we think we should get into. It does it without taking money from the general Treasury. It pays for itself.
Finally, people have said, well, how is it going to be spent? We made this point very clear.
In the first year, it will go to Mississippi and Louisiana State authorities. Subsequently, none of it will be spent until a second bill passes this House and the Senate, and we will collectively decide how to spend it. I know there are people who think the Federal Government should provide affordable housing. That's the only argument for this amendment.
Would the gentleman yield?
I said it would come from the shareholders. I didn't say it wouldn't come from Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.
Yes.