Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. At this time, I would like to include in the Record a number of exhibits: Exhibit A, in which under oath we had testimony that said the Department of Justice did not want to be in…
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
At this time, I would like to include in the Record a number of exhibits:
Exhibit A, in which under oath we had testimony that said the Department of Justice did not want to be in the business of picking or choosing organizations that may or may not receive any funding under an agreement.
Yet, exhibit B, in which the number three at Department of Justice under President Obama said, ``Can you explain to Tony the best way to allocate money toward organizations of our choosing,'' in a $9 billion settlement.
And in exhibit C, in which they specifically said they had concerns, including not allowing Citibank to pick a statewide intermediary like Pacific Legal Foundation that does conservative causes.
exhibit a
Chairman GOODLATTE. Well, let me just add that this
committee will not stand silent, nor will, I am sure, the
Financial Service Committee, and you can expect that this
will escalate if you do not provide the documentation that we
requested over 2 months ago.
Secondly, did anyone at the Department of Justice ever
consider the serious appearance of impropriety in requiring
banks to make available to activist organizations the lion's
share of funding that Congress has previously cut off to
them? That is one of the reasons why we want to see the
communications. We want to know what considerations went into
making this decision to take this action.
Mr. GRABER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, understand the
concern. And I can tell you that one of the reasons that the
Department wanted to use a preexisting list, the one that I
believe you are referring to, the HUD approved counseling
agency list, is because that list is preexisting. The
Department did not want to be in the business of picking and
choosing which organization may or may not receive any
funding under the agreement.
Chairman GOODLATTE. No, but it is the Congress'
responsibility to appropriate funds, and the Congress'
responsibility to be picking and choosing who gets
appropriations for expenditures. And we want to know what
connection there is between the fact that cuts were made and
. . .
exhibit b
From: Taylor, Elizabeth G. (OAAG)
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 10:58 AM
To (OLC); Seitz, Virginia A (OLC)
Cc: Martinez, Brian (OAAG); Graber, Geoffrey (OAAG) (OLC)
Subject: back again with questions
I'm sorry to be a pest. We keep tinkering with the
settlement agreement and I want to make sure that we are
doing it right. I also am not sure that I am a good messenger
between you and Tony because he asks me follow up questions
that I'm not sure I can answer. Do you have a few minutes
today to meet with Tony and let him ask you questions
directly?
Here are our current issues:
Can you explain to Tony the best way to allocate some money
toward an organization of our choosing? We have been
discussing having the agreement provide that JPM agreed to
pay $9 billion but that, if, by the time we sign the
settlement agreement, JPM has given $60 million to x
organization, they will only have to pay $8.04 billion. I
think that's ok. We understand that we would have no control
over what x organization does with the money.
Thanks
exhibit c part i
From: Frimpong, Maame Ewusi-Mensah (OAAG)
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:07 PM
To: (A2J)
Subject: RE: new language
Thanks! We made the proposal. They had one question
whenever you have a moment.
From: (A2J)
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:47 AM
To: Frimpong, Maame Ewusi Mensah (OAAG)
Subject: RE: new language
You go girl. The prospective settlement was on NPR this
morning, in case you didn't have your radio on . . .
Acting Senior Counselor for Access to Justice
U.S. Department of Justice
From: Frimpong, Maame Ewusi Mensah (OAAG)
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:42 AM
To: (A2J)
Subject: RE: new language
Cool. I will keep you posted.
From (A2J)
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:34 AM
To: Frimpong, Maame Ewusi Mensah (OAAG)
Cc (A2J)
Subject: RE: new language
Importance: High
Got it. Ok, this will hopefully address the concerns we'd
like to avert:
Donations to state-based Interest on Lawyers' Trust Account
(IOLTA) organizations (or other statewide bar-association
affiliated intermediaries) that provide funds to legal aid
organizations, to be used for foreclosure prevention legal
assistance and community redevelopment legal assistance.
Concerns include: a) not allowing Citi to pick a statewide
intermediary like the Pacific Legal Foundation (does
conservative property-rights free legal services) or a
statewide pro bono entity (will conflict out of most
meaningful foreclosure legal aid) we are more likely to get
the right result from a state bar association affiliated
entity; b) making
exhibit c part II
sure that it's legal assistance provided, not a scenario
where the bank can direct IOLTA or other intermediary to give
to even a legal aid organization but to do only housing
counseling, for example, under the umbrella ``foreclosure
prevention assistance.''
This get you closer?
Acting Senior Counselor for Access to Justice
U.S. Department of Justice
From: Frimpong, Maame Ewusi Mensah (OAAG)
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 6:10 PM
To (A2J)
Subject: new language
Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Poe).
Mr. Chair, I yield an additional 1 minute to the gentleman.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
If the minority has not gone through the discovery that we have, that we placed in the Record, I will be glad to give Mr. Cicilline or anyone else a copy.
I am just going to repeat, though, after receiving testimony that they didn't pick winners and losers, what we are marking as exhibit B and exhibit C make it clear they were, and specifically choosing, to exclude a ``conservative group.''
I think the important things here, though, Mr. Chairman, are if they want to have money in a settlement, such as the Deepwater Horizon tragedy, they certainly could, as long as it directly provides aid to the victims; which, of course, cleanup did. But when we look at these others, one of the great things is if they want to put it into a victim's fund as part of it, a government-controlled fund, they can if they want.
If the Department of Justice wants specific authority the way they do, for example, in water settlements, particularly related to Native American Tribes, they offer a deal, they put one together, and, Mr. Chairman, they come to Congress. This Congress, in the last Congress, settled multiple longstanding disputes with Tribes. What is interesting is they made sure the money went to those who had been harmed when they came to Congress and said: Please codify this agreement.
But in the many agreements that seems to go on in the Obama administration--and we now have the smoking gun of that--they made political decisions. Making political decisions is why you have to put this back in the light of day and with real congressional oversight.
What is amazing is, during the markup of this bill, there were a number of Members of the other party who specifically talked about not trusting the current occupant of the White House and the current Attorney General. It baffles me that they would not want to take back this authority knowing that the Department of Justice could bring to us a request for a bill that would authorize a specific settlement that could have outside groups or grant authority on a case-by-case basis.
The reality is the slush fund system has to stop. That is why Chairman Goodlatte's bringing this bill today was so critical.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
It is majority. Yes, you have copies of it.
Mr. Chairman, the gentleman asks for a colloquy.
Although I don't have them, I am sure they prove the same point: that the light of day, the cleanliness of sunlight, and congressional oversight and appropriation would have protected against the abuses the gentleman is probably describing.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, the gentleman's points are good. I am afraid his conclusion may be the part I have to differ slightly with, Mr. Chairman.
The gentleman from Tennessee is right to note past and other indiscretions. That is why we have this bill before you today. In fact, it is why passage is so important.
We don't want to have anybody of either party--the current occupant of the White House is from my party, a Republican. The current Attorney General is from my party, a Republican and former Republican Senator. The fact is that now is the time not to necessarily disparage any past activity but to stop it.
We are not a body that is supposed to trust as much as we are a body to have some trust and to verify. When we find wrongdoing, it is our job to make sure it doesn't happen again. This bill, including the comments of the gentleman from Tennessee, seeks to do that. I am convinced that it is good for that reason, and it is even good for the example that Mr. Cohen suggests.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to make sure I provide a little clarity. We are not talking about leftwing, rightwing, or other groups who get it. What we are talking about is a basic question of fungibility of money.
If something has been done wrong and a judge or the Department of Justice has X amount of determination of wrongdoing, the first question is: How much of that money can get to the victims? In a perfect world, the victims are made 100 percent whole. In a perfect world, 100 percent of the money passes from the perpetrator to the victim.
The Department of Justice making a decision not to a left- or rightwing group, but a political decision to give $1 million to the Coast Guard, to their charitable foundation, was a decision that clearly was not part of the mitigation but, rather, a general charitable decision. That was $1 million that did not go to the victim, did not go to the general Treasury, but it went to the whims of a bureaucrat.
We seek to make sure that, if that is an appropriate action, they come to Congress with that and not decide that charity begins with some unelected individual in the Department of Justice.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 1 minute in short response.
Mr. Chairman, sometimes the obvious is missed in the debate. The gentleman from Georgia talks about locking down power. Quite frankly, Republicans do have a majority in the House and a slim majority in the Senate, and the current occupant of the White House is from my party. So when we are trying to reduce potential misconduct by the executive branch, we are not doing it to take any money away.
As a matter of fact, this law would clearly cause more money to flow from the same amount of initial payment, more money to flow to the victims. So we are trying to flow more money to the victims. We are in no way reducing any aspect of settlements other than, if the current occupant of the White House, the President, and the Attorney General want to give to the charity of their choice, they can either do it with their own money or they can come to Congress for authority.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I want to take a moment to agree with the gentleman from New Jersey. The idea that you can pay a fine to get out from underneath criminal prosecution is one that I would like to see either eclipsed to where it is almost invisible and rarely used or done away with altogether. I would certainly agree to join with the gentleman in finding further prohibitions to that practice.
It has been too often that a corporation able to pay large amounts of money not only escapes its actions, but, of course, it escapes the prosecution of key individuals who may, in some cases, be responsible for the loss of life and/or health.
So I want to join with the gentleman from New Jersey. That is not what this bill is about. It doesn't deal with it, nor does it fail to deal with it. It is not the subject of the bill.
I urge the gentleman, who does agree with a portion of what we have to say, to work with me. I will be happy to be his cosponsor on a piece of legislation to try to curtail that practice.
Today, we are trying to curtail a practice in which we have examples of both Republicans and Democrats in the Office of the Attorney General, their justice departments, from making settlements that seem to have political bias. And that is what we are here to stop.
Mr. Chair, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
The gentlewoman spoke quickly, and I know she had a lot of important information there. Some of it simply was wrong.
One of them is that she touched on environmental cleanup. Very clearly, nothing in this legislation would limit the cleanup related to the wrongdoing or the damage. Not so. A third party could be hired to do the cleanup.
Additionally, nothing stops a settlement from requiring a company to have counseling or other mitigation. It simply stops the Department of Justice from picking a charity of its choosing to go do it.
Now what I would really like the gentlewoman--who may not be on the floor any longer--to understand is that the Department of Justice has grant authority and does multiple grants every single month of the year to some of the very same groups under its authority that these settlements are going toward. Congress has allowed it a certain amount of money to provide grants for general harm.
Additionally, every year, Congress allocates hundreds of millions of dollars to some of the very same groups and efforts the gentlewoman knows that we are talking about.
So, although her speech was quick, the thing that she said that may have misled some people here in the Chamber I think needs to be corrected. Direct harm will be mitigated. It can be done by anyone. A company can agree and be forced under supervision to mitigate and to hire people to help in that effort.
Very clearly, many of the groups being talked about here today already receive money through the grant process or through direct appropriation by Congress. That is the right way to do it. It is the reason this is a bipartisan bill and this is an effort by our Congress to make sure that we hold the reins of authority where they should be under the Constitution.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 2 minutes.
Mr. Chairman, I am putting this sign up not for the people in the Chamber, because people in the Chamber on the other side have continued to read the same talking points from their leadership that says there is no evidence.
This is in the record. This is a bigger part of it. So for the people in their offices who will come down to vote, if there is not a motion to recommit, they are not going to get an opportunity to see this.
So I hope that they will look just now and realize this is one of those things you don't normally get. As Chairman Goodlatte said, this is a smoking gun. This is a clear statement that an ideological bent against a nonprofit was very specifically there, while other emails in the same chain of emails shows that they were picking who they wanted.
That is the politics that was going on. It is the politics we are trying to prevent. As I said in my previous statement, the Department of Justice is given a number of dollars for grant programs, and we may not always agree with how those grant programs are run, but we give them that.
Additionally, the Congress appropriates a tremendous amount of money, much of it going to the same groups. A little over 1\1/2\ years ago, 2 years ago, this body came together on the reauthorization on Violence Against Women, which has and will continue to do very good work in exactly the area that people are talking about.
This is the reason we have legislation before us today. We have had political activity that has been going on, according to the Democrats, by Republican Attorneys General; according to this document, by the last Attorneys General. The fact is, we need the legislation. We have to have it.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, in closing, I don't believe there is any question at all but that the minority has missed the point. In no way, shape, or form are we changing. We intend to make sure the Department of Justice prosecutes wrongdoing, both criminal and civil.
The gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Pascrell) rightfully said we shouldn't have money paid in lieu of criminal prosecution; it should be both. I agree with him.
What we are dealing with here is a recognition that, under Republican and Democratic administrations, we have had mandatory donations that, in fact, went to charities, if you will, or organizations of the choice of those political entities. The fact is what we are doing is reining in--reining in--wrongdoing that is actual and has been observed, nothing more.
One of the challenges we face every day and one of the reasons I am imploring both sides to come together on this vote, one of the challenges we face is how much of our obligation we have ceded to the executive branch, often then only to be horrified when, behind closed doors, unelected, unaccountable people make decisions that would never be made on the House floor or the Senate floor, and this is one of them.
We are scrutinized when we pick nonprofits to provide funding to on the left, on the right, or, if there is such a thing left in America, in the middle. We are scrutinized. But when we scrutinize the Department of Justice's action, according to my colleagues, under Republicans, there has been clear wrongdoing. According to the documents that we put in the Record today and showed on the floor, in the last administration, there was clear partisan politics.
We are simply saying, if they want to make that kind of a settlement, bring it to Congress; otherwise, it is very clear that they must--and I repeat, must--stop the action of taking money that would otherwise go to the victims and moving it to nondescript third parties of their choosing, no matter how benevolent they might be, including the Coast Guard Foundation. It can't continue to happen. We have to have the money that is in settlements flow to the victims or flow to the Treasury.
Mr. Chairman, I urge passage of the bill, and I yield back the balance of my time.