Reserving the right to object, Madam Speaker, would the gentleman from Maryland yield to a question? Can you divulge to this House what is going to be discussed, not the content of it, but the topic that's going to be discussed? And the…
Reserving the right to object, Madam Speaker, would the gentleman from Maryland yield to a question?
Can you divulge to this House what is going to be discussed, not the content of it, but the topic that's going to be discussed?
And the debate that will take place regarding the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, what would conceivably be the nature of that debate?
Is it going to be debate over legislation?
The gentleman, in his long experience in the House, could he communicate to those who have, in my case, been in this House 12 years or less, anytime in your experience where the House has debated legislation in secret?
My friend has said two things. One is that there's an assumption that it's going to be about FISA, and another one is that there is going to be a debate of sorts.
When I asked the question if you are aware of whether or not anything like this has happened before, we are talking about specific legislation that is before this House, would the gentleman know what the precedent for this is? Is this unprecedented that the House of Representatives would be meeting in secret preliminary to legislation that it intends to pass? I haven't experienced this in my time; and for information purposes, I would ask the gentleman, who has been here, I think 26, 28 years, if in his experience he can remember that.
When?
On what?
Iran-Contra?
Was that before the hearings or after the hearings?
Well, I mean there's relevance here.
I yield to my friend, Mr. Blunt.
I said was it Iran-Contra?
And they were preliminary to the passing of legislation?
I just want to point out something here, Madam Speaker, as this House proceeds on this track. There are some of us here who feel that this country has drifted towards a version of a national security state. When the House begins to meet in secret on matters that relate to security prior to legislative acts, it raises questions about the Constitution of the United States. I know I am familiar with my friends' awareness that the Constitution gives the Congress the ability to make its own rules. I also understand from the first amendment that Congress wouldn't restrict any establishment of free speech. This is the citadel of free speech. This is the only place in America that someone can stand and say anything they want at any time and be free from any kind of a legal attack.
Once we close that up, we're changing the nature of it at a time when this country's at war, when there have been questions raised about secret meetings and what was told with respect to torture, about secret meetings and what was told with respect to rendition, about secret meetings and what was told with respect to private corporations doing wiretapping.
I just want the Members of this House to incorporate that in their reflections when we proceed to approve an agreement for a secret meeting.
I'd also like to state this, to just share my experience, and that is without referring to any content of any secret meeting I have been in, and I have been in a few at the beginning of my term in the House, I have found from my own experience, from my own experience, that secret meetings end up being occasions for the communication of information of, at least at best, dubious value. And I am not in any way impugning the motives of my good friends who are asking for a secret meeting in this case. But I am sharing with you my experience prior to this moment that secret meetings have been the occasion to communicate information that hasn't been particularly forthright or true.
Now, I could point to individuals, at least one individual who is sitting in this Chamber right now, who, when we had a secret meeting right after 9/11, walked right down that aisle and uttered a famous barnyard expletive after we were being briefed in a secret meeting by a member of the administration. Some of you who were there at the time remember. So I'm just communicating a concern here about the path we're going down, and I can only do that.
I will not attend that meeting. I will withdraw my reservation of objection. But I want to have my friends here know that we ought to be proceeding with the utmost caution in going in this direction. I am not going to be attending such a session. I believe that it violates the spirit of this House, but I will withdraw my reservation of objection since my good friend feels that this is the path that he has to go.
This reflects on what our distinguished majority leader said, Congresswoman Jackson-Lee. In the House under rule XVII, clause 9, it is true that any Member could ask for a secret session, claim they have information. That is a privilege. Furthermore, under rule X, clause 11, and then a subparagraph, the Select Committee
on Intelligence may move to hold a secret session to determine whether classified information held by the committee should be made public.
Now, we haven't seen our distinguished colleague ask for such a secret session, although our other distinguished colleague is requesting it. Now obviously since this has only been done five times in 182 years, five times in 182 years of this institution, it would seem to me that a very high bar has been reached here.
Now my question would be, hypothetically, since any Member has the ability to call for a secret session, if a secret session is requested and the bar that one would assume that we would need to clear to achieve a secret session has in fact not been met, that in fact a secret session was called for reasons for something that was not really all that secret, or not evidence that was probative and weighty, but instead that one person may have felt. And I am not impugning my friend here because he may have some information.
But generally speaking, under the rule, we can all ask for it. But, Mr. Hoyer, I think since you are our senior Member here who is our majority leader, or maybe the Parliamentarian knows, if a secret session is called for and the bar isn't reached, what then? What happens then with that secret session?
And what happens to the Member, if I may.
Would the gentlelady yield?
It is my understanding relative to these proceedings in a secret session that the proceedings of a secret session are not published unless the relevant Chamber votes during the meeting or at a later time to release them. Then portions can be released in the Congressional Record. Is that right, Congressman Jackson-Lee and Mr. Hoyer?
So that is the remedy, that the House could vote at some point to release.