Internet Tax Nondiscrimination Act
I announce that the Senator from Florida (Mr. Graham) and the Senator from Massachusetts (Mr. Kerry) are necessarily absent. Mr. President, I have the highest regard for the distinguished junior Senator from Mississippi, Senator Lott, but…
I announce that the Senator from Florida (Mr. Graham) and the Senator from Massachusetts (Mr. Kerry) are necessarily absent.
Mr. President, I have the highest regard for the distinguished junior Senator from Mississippi, Senator Lott, but on this issue I disagree with him. I believe we have to move forward on energy legislation any way we can. If it is piecemeal, let's do that. The people of the State of Nevada are suffering from high gasoline prices. We have the second or third highest gas prices in all America.
For example, the bill we are going to take up next week, the FSC bill, in that bill I think very importantly the managers of that bill added to that some very important tax provisions that deal with energy. There are some short-term solutions I will speak to briefly, but there are some long-term solutions we must address.
Senators Baucus and Grassley in the FSC bill address that. What have they done? They have provided tax credits for alternative energy. The tax credit for wind has expired. They are going to add, if we pass that legislation, a tax credit for solar, a tax credit for geothermal. This is the solution to the energy problems we have in this country. It will happen. It is only a question of time, when it is to happen. We need not depend forever on the vagaries of what OPEC does. We have to depend on what we can do.
People come to this Senate floor and say we need to produce our way out of the problem we have. We cannot do that. The United States has, even counting ANWR, less than 3 percent of the entire oil reserves in the world. Ninety-seven percent-plus of the oil is someplace other than the United States. So it is common sense that we cannot produce our way out of the problems we have today. We can do some things with the oil that we do have. We can make it better. We can have some of our smaller producing wells produce a little more. We can do some with exploration. But the answer is not that. We cannot produce our way out of the problems we have with oil.
So what can we do? The one thing we can do is do something with alternative energy. The Nevada test site in the deserts of Nevada has been the site for almost 1,000 nuclear explosions, some above the ground, some below the ground. At the Nevada test site, if you put solar panels on the Nevada test site you could produce enough electricity to serve the entire United States. The Nevada test site with solar panels could produce enough electricity to satisfy all the needs of this country.
We know that wind energy is doing very well. In the Midwest there are some farmers making more money on their windmills producing electricity than they are from the crops they produce. We know that Nevada has been said to be the Saudi Arabia of geothermal. We have, not unlimited, but huge amounts of geothermal power in the State of Nevada. You can drive places in Nevada and see steam coming out of the ground naturally. It is because of geothermal. Some wells have been tapped. The problem with tapping the resources we have with geothermal is the people have no tax credits to do it like they had for wind. If we did that, there would be immediately, in Nevada, a tremendous surge in the production of electricity which would feed our state, California, and other parts of the West with badly needed electricity. There would not be any pollution. The same, of course, applies to solar. So we need to do that.
There are some other solutions to problems we have. Of course, among the long-term solutions I did mention is more fuel-efficient vehicles. We certainly need to do a better job in that regard.
In recent years, there have been two major releases of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve--during the Clinton years and during the first Bush years. It was done because it brought down the price of oil.
For example, in January 16, 1991, there was a decision made to release oil from our petroleum reserve. The next day crude oil prices fell from $32 to $21 a barrel. Of course, it dropped. We have done it on two separate occasions--during the Clinton years and the first Bush years. It made a difference.
A second release occurred. After that second release, within a week of the time the Strategic Petroleum Reserve was being used, the price of oil dropped from $37 to $31 per barrel.
Right now the price of oil is near $40 a barrel. Why doesn't the President release this oil from the petroleum reserve? I don't know. I know one thing. It would certainly be a help if that happened. It would increase the supply in this country. As supply is increased, we would have a lessening of prices.
The other thing which I think is extremely important is that we recognize there are other ways of bringing down the cost of oil. One thing the President could do is use his bully pulpit and his influence, which we understand is significant with the Saudis. Bob Woodward just published a book that said they knew about the war before anybody in the Congress knew about it.
Also, of course, we have been told the President has been assured that in September they will start releasing more oil. That will also bring down the cost of oil. I suggest rather than waiting until this fall the President do something now to pressure the Saudis into releasing more oil. They have cut by 10 percent their production of oil which began on April 1.
These countries are supposed to be our friends. We have young Americans giving their lives in Iraq right now to make that part of the world safer and more stable. It doesn't seem right the Saudis and other OPEC nations are not recognizing what we are doing for them.
We also know there are other things that can happen. The bill that was defeated on the Senate floor last year had a lot of problems with it. Senator McCain referred to it as a ``hooters and polluters'' bill because of all of the ornaments that have been attached to the so- called ``Christmas tree.''
There are things which we need to do. People have said, Well, these things the President can do now do not matter. Getting the Saudis to increase the supply of oil would matter and, of course, having more oil come out of our strategic reserve would matter. The other thing the President could do is say let us stop buying oil to be put in the SPR right now. Some analysts suggest prices will only go down by 10 to 20 cents a gallon. That is significant.
In Nevada where the prices are approaching $2.50 a gallon, it seems to me that would be a help. Anything would help. As far as I am concerned, that is a good enough reason to do it.
Consumers need immediate relief. We are talking about as much as a million barrels of oil a week. That is about how much we put in the SPR which we are buying from the OPEC nations when they cranked up the price of oil. It doesn't make sense to do that. This isn't the huge supply of oil that comes into this country on a weekly base, but it still is a lot. It will make a difference.
The latest price spike in Nevada was caused, they say, by the shutting down of the refinery in northern California
which produces only 165,000 barrels of oil a day, or 1.5 million barrels a week. If that is the case, that is the same amount of oil we are buying from OPEC to put in the SPR. That logically would indicate the price should come down.
I think if we are going to do anything for energy in this country, we have to take it piecemeal: Do ethanol, and do what we are going to do next week with the legislation that has been crafted by Senators Grassley and Baucus to give tax credits to the people who will produce good, clean energy.
The President in his State of the Union message said he wanted to move to a hydrogen economy. If we are going to depend on a hydrogen economy, we have to do something about producing hydrogen and use something other than fossil fuel to produce it, which only compounds the pollution. The only way you can have a hydrogen economy is produce the hydrogen by using alternative energy--sun, wind, or geothermal.
I hope we can, as Senator Dorgan has indicated, move forward very quickly and dispose of this legislation. If people vote the way they did the last time, this should go away very quickly. For people who say, I voted for it once, I am not going to this time because it is different form and it is stand alone, it seems to me it should be easier to do it that way than when it was in the bill which had so many different problems.
I commend and applaud the Senator from South Dakota for moving this particular piece of legislation which will improve the energy needs of this country.
I hope we look long term and do things other than what we have been doing; that is, try to produce our way out of the situation that is so desperate for the people in Nevada who have the third or fourth highest gas prices in America.
I object.
Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. President.
Can the Chair give the Senator from Nevada an idea of how long it would take to read the amendment?
I object.
Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. President.
It is not in order?
Reserving the right to object.
I object.
I object. I don't know what ``temporary'' means.
Reserving the right to object, Mr. President, it is my understanding the Senator from New Mexico is asking that there be 10 minutes of debate equally divided; following that, the reading of the amendment will continue?
Mr. President, it goes without saying, but I will say it again, I have worked with Senator Domenici during my entire 18 years in the Senate. During more than half of that time, he and I have worked as the chairman or ranking member, as the majority of the Senate goes back and forth, on one of the most important subcommittees there is in the appropriation process, Energy and Water, so we have worked very closely together.
We are partners in that legislation, and he is my friend. However, on this energy bill let me say this: First, today of all days is a day when the Supreme Court of the United States was hearing a most important case, a case the Vice President of the United States has stalled for 3\1/2\ years. He had meetings during the transition period after President Bush and he were elected, meetings with people from the energy field, oil companies, automobile manufacturers, but we are not certain, people from the nuclear industry.
All the American people have asked for in 3\1/2\ years is tell us who they met with, what they talked about, and when the meetings took place. He has refused. Now this matter has gone to the Supreme Court, and that argument was held today. These were secret meetings, I guess is what they are, and if there was ever a time in the history of the country where we need to debate the energy crisis, as some refer to it openly, it is today. The first step to that would be to find out who the Vice President met with, why he met with them, what he talked about, and how long the meetings took place. He has refused to do that.
I also say that this country has arrived at a point in time where we are not going to be able to do major legislation. Let me give some examples with rare exception. Take, for example, the endangered species bill. The endangered species bill has caused problems in the State of North Dakota, and I know this because I have heard my two colleagues from North Dakota talk about the problems of the endangered species law in North Dakota. But it is not limited to North Dakota; the endangered species law is a problem for most States in the country. The State of Nevada ranks 34th in the number of listings for endangered species.
A number of years ago Senator Baucus, Senator Chafee, Senator Kempthorne and I tried to do a major revision of that bill. We could not do it. In that same Environment and Public Works Committee, there was a decision made that we needed to do something about Superfund. We could not. We have tried. Senator Smith, Senator Lautenberg, and others on that committee tried. They were at loggerheads. They could not come up with a major revision of that bill.
So the decision has been made by most legislators that the way to improve the Superfund law that now exists is to improve it by bits and pieces. The way to improve the endangered species law in this country is to do it by bits and pieces. The Energy bill is the same thing.
I say to my friend, we are not going to pass a bill that the Senator from Arizona referred to as the hooters and polluters bill. Why was it referred to as the hooters and polluters bill? Well, many of us think it did nothing to clear up the environment. Where did the hooters come in? One of the ornaments attached to the Christmas tree bill was to give a financial stipend to a Hooters operation some place in the southern part of this country. That is where it got its name.
We are not going to pass major legislation on energy in the near future. What we can do, though, is pass the part on which there is general bipartisan agreement. Ethanol is an example. More than two- thirds of the Senate voted for that legislation. It seems to me entirely logical that we should dispose of that matter. It would do some good to help the energy crisis we all acknowledge is in this country.
As I spoke about earlier today, I throw bouquets to Senators Baucus and Grassley for having done what they did in the recent FSC bill by including in that something that is extremely important--section 45, production tax credits for renewable resources--that expands and extends a credit for wind, geothermal, solar, and biomass. That is important. We should pass that measure next week. I think we are going to do that. We should do the ethanol bill now.
My friend from Arizona, the distinguished senior Senator from Arizona, asked, What is going on in the Senate?
I ask that the Senator from Nevada be given an extra 4 minutes and the Senator from New Mexico be given an equal amount of time.
It is possible. I will think about it after.
I ask unanimous consent that I be given 4 additional minutes, an extra 4 minutes be given to the Senator from New Mexico, and then we go back to reading the amendment when I finish.
Mr. President, what I was saying is the Senator from Arizona asked, What is going on in the Senate? I mean, can anyone imagine--and I am paraphrasing--they offered an amendment to energy on a bill that deals with the Internet tax?
My friend from Arizona, who is one of the most astute politicians this country has ever seen, knows what is going on. We are in the Senate. This has been going on for more than 200 years. We have the right to do that. In years past, no one ever considered it anything out of the ordinary.
The problem we have in the Senate today is we do not do anything. In the last 4 weeks, we have voted 11 times. Why? Because amendments are offered to important legislation like FSC and there is a desire to have a vote, for example, on overtime. How much time does Senator Harkin want to debate that? He will take 10 minutes and vote on it. We have not been given that privilege.
So what is going on in the Senate today is what has gone on for 200 years. The difference is, nothing is ever brought to conclusion because people do not want to vote. The majority has made a decision they do not want to vote, so we do not vote.
So I say to my friend from Arizona, we are doing what has been historically done in this body. Some may ask, Well, Senator Reid, why would you ask this amendment be read? Because I feel that offering this amendment of some 800 to 900 pages is only a message that says we are going to continue doing business in the Senate the way we have all year long and do nothing. Everybody knows that we are not going to pass this. It is the same as the endangered species. It is the same as Superfund. We are not going to pass a hooters and polluters bill.
We can take bits and pieces out of that legislation and do some good for this country. I repeat: To do the section 45 production tax credit would be a tremendous boon to this country. We would be able to start producing energy alternatively. It would help the capital markets. There would be construction jobs. I think it is the right way to go.
I am disappointed that my friend from New Mexico, who has worked hard--as my friend from North Dakota said, no one has worked harder on this energy bill than my friend from New Mexico, the distinguished senior Senator, but I say to him, someone I should not be giving advice to because he has far more experience than I have, this bill is not going to pass. I repeat for the third time, look at what we have tried to do with endangered species, look what we have tried to do with Superfund. Those are only two of the numerous other pieces of legislation we need to work on, but let's do them piece by piece. That will be my suggestion.
I will give some thought to taking away my objection to reading the amendment, but I am going to give some thought to that because I think offering this amendment is only a way of preventing our moving forward on this important legislation. I have spoken to the manager of this bill. He thinks that working with Senator McCain, the chairman of the Commerce Committee, that we can come up with a compromise in a reasonable period of time. It is totally appropriate that we dispose of Senator Daschle's amendment. People should vote it up or down. More than two-thirds of the Senate approved it at one time. Why should that change?
I would like an additional 1 minute on our side with the same rule in effect
Mr. President, the Senator from New Mexico has stated the bill he offered is not the so-called hooters and polluters bill, so named by the distinguished Senator from Arizona, but in fact it is a slimmed down version of that bill.
I ask through the Chair of my friend from New Mexico, is that, in fact, the case? Could you answer that yes or no? The bill that is now before the Senate is a slimmed down version of the so-called hooters and polluters bill?
I ask, does this bill have in it the section 45 production tax credit?
I ask my friend from New Mexico, would you support-- supporting your bill here, that is the one I have offered as an amendment, would you support the FSC bill with the section 45 production tax credit in it?
Mr. President, I am going to, at this time, that being the case, recognizing that what the Senator has offered is a slimmed down version and is not the original bill, and that he would support the provision in the FSC bill--I think a combination of those two might make some interesting votes here in the next day or two--I withdraw my objection to waiving reading the amendment.
I know the Senator from Virginia wants to speak on the underlying bill. I will be as brief as I can.
What I told the Senator from New Mexico, through the Chair, is that it was my understanding that the bill that was offered in the form of an amendment was nearer the original bill that was offered and cloture was not invoked on it previously. I have been told by my staff and others that it is a slimmed down version of the original bill. That was confirmed by the Senator from New Mexico.
I further went on to say, to ask the Senator from New Mexico if it had the section 45 production tax credit in it. He said no. I then went further and said, would he, the Senator from New Mexico, support the FSC bill, which does have the production tax credits in it, and he said he would.
I then said, that being the case, that we have a smaller version of the original Energy bill than I originally thought, and, further, that he would support the FSC bill, including the production tax credit provision that was placed in there by Senators Grassley and Baucus. I then said I think that is going to make for some interesting votes in the next few days.
I would assume the alternatives, I say through the Chair to my friend from New Mexico. I assume the majority has a number of alternatives. They can debate endlessly the amendment you have offered, the amendment the Senator from Arizona has offered, and we already have cloture having been filed on the minority leader's amendment--so it is possible, I don't know if the majority has made that decision, they could file cloture on your amendment.
They could file cloture on the amendment of the Senator from Arizona. That is why I said in a couple of days. It takes 2 days for these cloture motions to ripen. Maybe Thursday we could have a vote on all these matters, and I said it would make for some interesting votes.
Mr. President, if the distinguished leader will yield for a brief comment, as I said to Senator Domenici this afternoon, this scenario that has been set up is going to create some very interesting votes because if we move down the road where we come to a McCain cloture vote, if cloture is invoked, then Daschle and Domenici fall. At least that is my understanding. If that is the case, then that part of the Energy bill would be gone. But anyway, that sets up some interesting dynamics here.
We do at least have out here, in addition to the FSC legislation, pieces of the original Energy bill. Who knows, we might wind up doing something on energy.