NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2012--Continued
Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk. Mr. Chairman, we have a huge deficit. Everybody knows that. We have a terribly enormous debt. Everybody knows that. None other than the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State have…
Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
Mr. Chairman, we have a huge deficit. Everybody knows that. We have a terribly enormous debt. Everybody knows that. None other than the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State have said that our national debt is, in fact, a national security issue and we need to deal with it. And we are. We are reducing spending in a number of Departments in a number of areas. We're talking about reforming entitlement programs in order to save them. And we are asking lots of Departments and lots of areas to reduce waste and duplication and to operate more efficiently and do the things they are doing with less money.
There is no reason, Mr. Chairman, that we should not look for said duplication, said waste and ask the Department of Defense to do the same so that we can attack this deficit and this debt.
This amendment would terminate the Human Social and Cultural Behavior Modeling program at the Department of Defense. Now as kind of obtuse as the name of that program sounds, I'm actually not going to criticize the value of some of the information in the program of the Defense Department. The reason I'm offering this amendment to terminate this program is because it's entirely duplicative, because these things are done elsewhere and by other people, and we don't need to spend the millions and millions of dollars that we are currently in the Department of Defense on grant programs.
There are currently university research initiatives at the Army, Navy and the Department of the Air Force that are duplicative of this general Defense Department. There are Department events, university and industry research centers which conduct university research which can and do some of this work and are totally duplicative of what this program does.
And I'm going to read you a list of things that this program does research on. And as I read you this list, think about how universities in the normal course of their business know this stuff, research this stuff, figure this stuff out, and we don't have to have a separate program to do it. Topography, that is part of this program, small business innovation, human behavior, socioeconomics, sociocultural response studies, engineering, globalization, population research, morality and values, and the quality of government, politics and education.
Now, these are all things I'm sure the Department of Defense needs to know to do their job, but they can get this information from any number of other programs currently in the Department of Defense or from universities that are doing this research on their own. This will save millions of dollars and help with one of the greatest national security threats we have, which is our deficit and our debt.
I reserve the balance of my time.
May I inquire as to how much time I have remaining.
I yield myself as much time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate my colleague from Texas's remarks. Again, just to reiterate, I am not challenging the value or the use to the Department of Defense of some of the information. What I am challenging is whether we need an entirely separate program. We have been talking about the Department of Education, multiple programs in that Department that do the same thing, the Department of Energy, the Department of Agriculture. All kinds of Departments have duplicative programs because we built these things up over the years.
This is one of those programs. None other than the Heritage Foundation has identified this as a program that is entirely duplicative and that this work is and can be done and is being done through other DOD programs or for private research that doesn't have to be funded by DOD. And I think everyone here knows the Heritage Foundation is not exactly a bastion of anti-defense or weak on our national security.
So my argument here is that if we don't look at this sort of thing in every Department, including in the Department of Defense, we're never going to get a handle on this deficit. There is waste in Defense too. There is duplication in Defense too. And we need to start to begin to reduce it. I think this is a small step. I would ask for Members' support.
I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.
Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.
Mr. Chairman, as identified during the last amendment, we have debt, we have deficit, we need to look for things in the Department of Defense as well where we can look for efficiencies and expense reductions and still defend the country.
Currently in the Department of Defense, we have somewhere approaching 800,000 civilian employees. Let me repeat that. In the Department of Defense today, we have approximately 800,000 full-time, nonuniformed civilian employees. This does not include the roughly 1.5 million men and women in uniform, and it does not include all of the defense contractors. And I would love to tell you how many of those there are, but because we do not audit the Department of Defense, that information is not available so I don't know.
So we have 800,000 people not uniformed working in the Department of Defense, not doing any of the stuff done by the contractors. Now, I could go through a long analysis of do we really need one nonuniformed person for every two uniformed people in the Department of Defense. Do we really need that many? But this amendment is very small in its scope and very small in what it intends to do.
All it says is let's reduce that 800,000 head count by 1 percent a year for the next 5 years. So all this amendment says is: Next year, can we accomplish the mission of the U.S. military in the Department of Defense without touching anything having to do with a single man or woman in uniform, but with 99 percent of the nonuniformed personnel that we currently have? Somehow, I do not believe that is going to devastate our ability to defend this country. It is 1 percent a year for the next 5 years.
So it is saying, 5 years from now, yes, we will have to do with 95 percent of the nonuniformed personnel. But I think that is something we can do and something, again, where we can begin to save some money and deal with our greatest national security threat, which is our debt.
I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate my colleague's comments; and, frankly, I don't disagree that it is arbitrary. I would argue that perhaps how we got to this 800,000 was not by anybody doing a great deal of planning either, so perhaps that is arbitrary.
But, you know, if you want someone to start to be more efficient, you have to set some goals. You have to set some targets. This number has been growing, and growing steadily for years. Probably for decades, but it has certainly been growing for years. It has been unchecked. There has been no real review or evaluation of it.
What I am trying to do here, and I am not arguing that there is anything scientific to the 1 percent, but it is to say: Let's start to get this under control. Let's start to evaluate this. And you know what? If we need to reevaluate it, we can reevaluate it. But let's say to the Department of Defense: You know what? This is a lot of people. We think that you can get by with less.
I have talked to a number of uniformed personnel who believe a lot of these people actually get in their way, and they would much prefer that some of them were not there because they actually create a bureaucracy that interferes with the ability of the uniformed people to accomplish their mission.
So what this amendment is trying to do, it is saying: Let's get into this and let's set a target and let's see if we can't get there, and let's see if we can't save some money along the way.
I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate both gentlemen's comments and their remarks and their tone and their tenor. I respectfully disagree because I think that, again, not a single uniformed person is being affected. This has nothing to do with that. I think 1 percent at least sends a message and is a start. And it is difficult to argue that it is going to devastate anything. I would ask support on the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.