Would the Senator yield for a question? Is the Senator aware that there are at least four other bills--Senator Vitter, Senator Roberts, Senator Collins, and Senator Portman--and, in addition, that Senator Lieberman is developing a…
Would the Senator yield for a question? Is the Senator aware that there are at least four other bills--Senator Vitter, Senator Roberts, Senator Collins, and Senator Portman--and, in addition, that Senator Lieberman is developing a comprehensive bill on reg reform? Is the Senator aware of those other bills?
Through the Chair, I understand Senator Coburn, under the UC, has the next 15 minutes. But, through the Chair, I would end my question by saying that I think the Senator is right. There are some regulations that are coming fairly fast and furiously. But I think the Senator would also understand that the normal process is reviewing the bills at the committee level, comparing and contrasting, and then bringing the best approach to the floor. And that is what some of us are objecting to. It is not the goal of reducing regulations; it is the process.
Thank you.
Mr. President, I understand our side has about 50 minutes left in this debate on the Snowe amendment and we will vote at 2:15. I will speak for the next 15 or 20 minutes. There is nobody else on the floor on our side. I will continue to try to answer some of the issues raised in the last few minutes about this particular amendment.
First of all, I have a great deal of respect for the Senator from Oklahoma, and nobody has worked harder on trying to bring more efficiency to the Federal Government. He has spent hours and hours and hours in meetings, official meetings, informal meetings, on budgets, efficiencies, and regulations. I have a great deal of respect for the Senator from Oklahoma personally. But I do take offense at some of the--not just the suggestions but accusations and specific attacks made on the floor against the government. Two or three were issued in the speech he just gave--statements like this: ``The bureaucracy never takes risks.''
I wish to ask him, what bureaucracy did he think supported the elimination of Osama bin Laden? Does the Senator from Oklahoma believe there were no risks taken by this bureaucracy that he so routinely wants to degrade--to no good end? I would ask him, if he were still on the floor, were no risks taken by anyone when they launched the strike against Osama bin Laden that eventually killed him?
Would the Senator from Oklahoma suggest we have no regulations on Wall Street; that we should trust the big international bankers of the world to do what is right every day for the people of Oklahoma? I know the people on Wall Street wake up every morning and think to themselves while they are eating breakfast: What can I do today to help the people in Oklahoma or in Louisiana?
Of course, that is absurd. There is a place for appropriate regulation, and bureaucracies aren't always bad. When George Washington led the creation of this country, he most certainly had in his mind a government that worked for the people, by the people.
Let's fix the government. Let's not tear it down by statements that have no basis in fact, that do not uplift people, do not encourage people. They numb people. They make people angry. They make people think there is no hope, when there is. There are thousands of people who put on a uniform every day and go to work for this country. They are mothers, fathers, grandparents, aunts, and uncles. They work hard and they do not deserve the disparaging remarks that come too often from the other side of the aisle.
If you don't like government--you have made it plain--then fix it. One of the ways to fix it is to take a bill--and this is not an amendment that Senator Snowe has, it is a bill. I have seen it. She asked me to cosponsor it, and I have declined. It is a bill--a major bill--that has jurisdiction that will find its jurisdiction not in one committee--the Small Business Committee--but in five committees that have jurisdiction over the aspects of Senator Snowe's bill. One of the reasons we should not vote favorably is not because we are not for regulatory reform but because this bill has ramifications that go far beyond the Small Business Committee, which I chair, and five or six other committees need to look at the provisions in her bill. That is one reason we have asked to go through the committee process.
No. 2, there are, at least to my knowledge, four other bills that attempt to fix this overregulatory reach which, I agree with Senator Thune, with Senator Coburn, and I agree with Senator Snowe, needs to be tapped down and harnessed--not eliminated--and made less onerous for all business, not just small business. There are at least four other bills I know of that are attempting to do that. One is by Senator Vitter, one by Senator Roberts, one by Senator Collins, and one by Senator Portman. I have not had the opportunity to review in detail all of these other bills, but I am sure they have some very excellent points to them.
The committee process allows a chairman such as Senator Lieberman, who is not here today, whose committee would have primary jurisdiction over this, to bring all five bills before his committee, hear the best aspects of each, potentially combine them into a bill, and bring them to the floor. Do you know what. Senator Lieberman, I know, has offered to do that in his committee. That bill could potentially come out of committee--potentially with Senator Snowe as lead author, with other cosponsors--a bill that both Democrats and Republicans can agree to, which could give relief to reg reform.
This is not about finding a solution. This is about public relations, campaigns, and Republican rhetoric about the election. That is what I object to. If this were about regulatory reform and finding a solution, the five Senators who have bills, and other Senators--Senator McCaskill, for one, who is here today, is developing a bill, and Senator Carper, who has spent years on this subject and is quite the expert--they would all come before the Homeland Security Committee, on which I have the privilege of serving, and in a short amount of time-- just a few weeks--figure out something the majority could support.
This is not about fixing the problem. This is about bumper stickers for elections, and I am very tired of it. I am not the only one. As chair of the Small Business Committee, I can promise you that our committee, with Senator
Snowe as ranking member, has worked every day very hard through this recession to put forward bills on this floor that could help create jobs, bring relief. In fact, regarding one of the most burdensome regulations that the business community was screaming about, our committee was very aggressive in helping to eliminate that. That was section 1099, which would have required every business to report to the IRS any purchase they made for goods over $600. It would have brought many businesses to their knees, buried in paperwork.
Did our committee sit around and twiddle its thumb? No. We worked hard. We had, I think, the only hearing in Congress on 1099, and we repealed it. It took us a while to find the right offset. The minute the business groups brought it to our attention, we said we made a mistake and it will take us a while to find the $20 billion to offset it, but we will look at it before it goes into effect and repeal it. We did that.
When Republicans say Democrats don't care about regulatory burdens, I find that offensive. It is not helpful. This bill is not on the floor on regulatory relief. This bill is on a small but effective economic development program that has worked beautifully in my State. Contrary to what the Senator from Oklahoma and others have said, this program-- in Louisiana, as far as Louisiana is concerned--actually works. One of the reasons it works so well is because many of the decisions about the grants are not done in Washington but at the regional level. Our office happens to be in Austin, TX. When the Chamber of Commerce comes to visit me--and they are not always huge supporters of the Democratic caucus--they say to me: Senator, one of the best programs that our members like and feel the Federal Government does a very good job with is the EDA grants, because they are not that bureaucratic. They make quick decisions and help us fill gap financing in programs that make a meaningful difference to people in our communities. I didn't raise this subject to the Chamber of Commerce; they raised this subject to me.
Maybe the Senator from Oklahoma is correct that some of these moneys were earmarked. But we don't allow earmarks anymore. So this program is going to go on without earmarks directed by Members. It is going to be done on a regional basis, and these programs have been--at least in Louisiana's experience--quite effective. Louisiana Tech, one of my universities, received a $2 million EDA grant. I will submit this for the Record: Our ongoing partnership with EDA has greatly enhanced the university's overall economic development efforts. We are creating the EDA University Center.
This is from the mayors of both cities. You know, I do trust my local elected officials. I do trust the people I represent. When they say a program works, I like to believe them.
There is a list of projects and recent investments in Louisiana--$1.2 million to Tulane University.
Can I tell you one thing about Tulane University, since it was damaged significantly after Hurricane Katrina? We have over 45,000 applicants to this school. Why do people want to come to Tulane? They want to come because not only is it a great school, but it is in a great city that is rebuilding itself. An EDA grant--that some people wish to eliminate--is helping to rebuild our city. So $1.2 million to Tulane University. It is a microloan program.
I believe the people at Tulane University. I have a great respect for Scott Cowen and their board. Everywhere I travel around the United States as a Senator I could not be more proud when people come up to me and comment what a great university Tulane is. I don't need somebody in Washington telling me how good this program is. I have the people I represent at home telling me.
We have $75,000 given to the downtown development district which was underwater after Katrina for the Idea Village. You know where the Idea Village was recently advertised? Maybe on the front page of Enterprise Magazine; maybe in Time magazine. This Idea Village is one of the best ideas in the whole country. You know who funded it? The program Senator Boxer is trying to reauthorize.
We have $400,000 for a startup fund for the creation and development of stimulus funds to support fledgling enterprises in the greater New Orleans region. Our seafood industry went completely--no pun intended-- underwater after the BP oilspill. This agency stood up, when no one else would--BP wouldn't give them a penny, Ken Feinberg wouldn't give them any money--and gave them $350,000 to keep their head above water-- the Seafood Promotion Board. That is why, in large measure, people are eating gulf coast shrimp today.
So I don't know what report Senator Coburn is looking at, but the May 19 GAO report states they have not concluded that duplication exists among programs, and plans to address these issues in their future work on overlap and duplication.
I don't know if the Senator has asked his Chamber of Commerce from Oklahoma, but I am going back to my office and I am going to call them myself, because I wish to find out. Maybe their program works differently in Oklahoma than it works in Louisiana. But when I call my people at home--and they will tell me: Senator, some of these programs aren't worth a hill of beans and you should eliminate them; these programs are too difficult. I have that all the time about some programs. Not all the time, but some programs. This isn't one of them.
The reason I am a little exercised is because this is like deja vu. I came to this floor 4 weeks ago to try to get a similar program in size--a $1.2 billion program that has worked so well. Senator Warren Rudman had created it. It is a great program. It is the country's best venture capital program for all small business. It makes money. It doesn't lose money. We got the same thing done to us by the other side of this aisle that says we don't care about small business over here because we have to talk about X, Y, and Z.
So this is the second time for one of our chairmen. I was the first, and now Senator Boxer is trying to bring to the floor a program that is not that complicated. It is a little program but it has big bang for the buck. It gets rave reviews from the people in my State--Republicans mainly but Democrats as well--and we can't seem to get this program approved until we take bills that Members want to put on this bill that have nothing to do with it and that haven't gone through committee.
I am going to be voting against Senator Snowe's bill. But to make clear, I support Senator Snowe's efforts to reduce regulation. My people in Louisiana are screaming about this. I have tried to communicate this to the administration in many ways, whether it is EPA or the Corps of Engineers, or the more recent one coming out of one agency that wants all my oilfield workers to put on HAZMAT suits to go to work. If you put on a HAZMAT suit in Louisiana when it is 100 degrees, you won't get to the oil rig because you will faint before you get there.
I am not unaware--I want the Senator from Oklahoma to understand--of some ridiculous rules and regulations that come flying out of some of our agencies. But the way to fix them is not to bring a bill to the floor that has not had a hearing when six different committees have jurisdiction, when Senator Lieberman, who has the lead jurisdiction as chair of Homeland Security has indicated a complete willingness to take this on.
There are enough bumper sticker printing operations in America today. There is only one U.S. Senate. I suggest we start acting like the U.S. Senate and stop acting like a bumper sticker operation.
I yield the floor.
Will the Senator yield for a question?
Mr. President, how much time is remaining?
I object.
Mr. President, the Senator from California was on the Senate floor this morning, Mrs. Boxer, advocating passage of this bill and urging colleagues to vote against the Snowe amendment. I am here to support that position.
I would like to respond briefly to Senator Coburn's last couple of statements about where the bureaucracy failed. He didn't have to remind me, of course, the bureaucracy failed to respond to Katrina and Rita, the largest disasters by far in the history of the country. But we have spent 6 years fixing that bureaucracy, not printing bumper stickers for reelection campaigns. You know what. It has worked because our efforts to fix the bureaucracy have helped the people of Missouri and Arkansas and Tennessee and Montana and Indiana who are currently experiencing terrible disasters as we speak.
The bureaucracy that showed up at the Superdome is a lot better today in many ways--it is better today than the bureaucracy that showed up at the Superdome. That is because we had hundreds of hours of committee meetings, where this hard work is done, to bring
significant and important bills and changes that take debate, not on the Senate floor but take debate in the work of the committee. When you are working on major pieces of legislation that have major impacts, that is where it is done.
Besides the FREEDOM Act that is on the floor today, there is the Regulatory Responsibility For Our Economy Act, sponsored by Senator Roberts with 46 cosponsors. I am assuming--I don't have the list, but I am assuming they are Democratic and Republican cosponsors. That is a major regulatory relief bill.
There is a bill by Senator Collins called the CURB Act, Clearing Unnecessary Regulatory Burdens. The CURB Act has two cosponsors.
Then there is a smaller bill by Senator Portman that has no cosponsors, but he is the lead sponsor. That looks to me like it is a smaller bill and has limited scope but nonetheless on regulatory reform.
There could be 12 other bills filed in the Senate--I don't know--and hundreds of other bills filed in the House. Forget the House bills. When bills like this are filed in the Senate, the usual route and the most effective route is to go through the committee of jurisdiction. You can understand in this topic, which is so broad--regulatory reform--it is regulatory reform in the Department of Commerce and regulatory reform in the Department of EPW, Environmental and Public Works, regulatory reform for the Department of Homeland Security, regulatory reform in the Department of Defense. There are many committees of jurisdiction.
What everyone has agreed to is to have the hearing in the Homeland Security Committee, which has broad jurisdiction, and get the work done. Senator Lieberman is not here today because he is on Jewish holiday. He has said time and time again he will have this hearing in the committee and that is the appropriate place so we can come forward with a bill on regulatory relief.
There are a couple of reasons why this particular approach is flawed. I would like to read the comments from the administration. I would like to read three specific reasons why this particular FREEDOM Act is not in the proper position it should be. But the way to fix it is not debating on the floor of the Senate on a bill that is not really germane to the bill that we are debating, that we are trying to pass. It is to have this kind of debate in committee so we can work out these details. Senator Snowe has shown herself to be in the past, and still today, willing to work in a very cooperative manner, and the place to do this is in committee.
No. 1: The bill as currently drafted would allow judicial
review before the completion of rulemaking. That provision in
the Freedom Act would undermine regulatory certainty, making
it harder for businesses--
not easier, harder--
for businesses to plan for the future and compete in the
marketplace. It would also invite excessively costly and
unwieldy litigation.
We don't want to have more lawsuits. We want to have less lawsuits. That is one of the problems small businesses are facing today--lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. The last thing we want to do is encourage more of them. Many people have reviewed the technical writing of the bill in its current form and believe it will result in more lawsuits, not less. We wish to fix that in committee.
The amendment would make it harder, not easier, to see the
actual cost of regulation, by expanding the Regulatory
Flexibilities Act definition to include indirect effects.
I can understand why she wants to do it, but in interpreting the language as the Senator has written it, this legislation would likely undermine any reliable and meaningful economic analysis of regulation, thereby distracting the agencies from focusing on what the actual impacts of the rules would be.
Finally, the amendment inappropriately links regulatory
decisions to budget cuts. Decisions about regulation should
be based on sound economic science and not on the threat of
budget cuts.
This is a preliminary review of some of the current problems.
Senator Snowe is right, I guess. We could stay on the floor for the next 2 or 3 or 4 weeks and the other Senators who are not on the floor could agree to come and debate their bills on the floor, which is highly unusual. But why not just go to the Homeland Security Committee, have all of the sponsors of these major pieces of legislation present their bills and have that committee work through these technical difficulties? Because it is an important issue. Many of us support regulatory reform. We know there are some burdens, particularly on small business. We want to get it fixed, so let's fix it instead of continuing to rail on this subject on every bill that comes before the Senate, whether or not it has anything to do with regulatory reform.
One thing I wish to point out to the Senator, and I point this out with the greatest respect, about 6 months ago or longer now, we were both on the floor trying to pass the small business jobs act, a very significant bill that would actually help to bolster this economy and help provide literally billions of dollars of loans to small businesses that couldn't get them anywhere. Their credit card companies had raised the rates so high or their banks had shut down their lines of credit. Senator Snowe and I worked together to bring a bill to the floor--and we did, and passed it, unfortunately, without the support of the other side of the aisle. But in that debate, the Senator from Maine said-- because I included in that bill, with a 60-vote margin--I got Senator Voinovich and Senator LeMieux to vote for the small business lending fund, which was a little unusual. She said:
. . . not included in the overall. First and foremost, it
has not had a single hearing with respect to this issue, and
in my view, it certainly does resurrect the controversial
TARP program . . . and because it hasn't had a hearing, this
should not pass.
Yet, within a year, she is back arguing against that argument--that her bill, which hasn't had any hearing in the committee--should pass.
So there is some inconsistency here. I say this with the greatest respect to the Senator from Maine. But if we want to be serious about regulatory reform, we have to have this debate in the committee of jurisdiction, which is right now Homeland Security, and then have the other chairmen of the committees try to cooperate with that committee and bring something to the floor. We will be happy, many of us, to vote for it. But doing this in this way is not helpful. It is not going to fix the problem. It is only going to make the burden on small business worse. We have to move past it.
I wish to refer my colleagues to the floor remarks Senator Snowe made on July 22, 2010.
Can these be fixed? Yes. But this is not the place, on the Senate floor, when there are many other bills as well. Senator Snowe could remain the main sponsor because she has put in the most work. She has been a tireless advocate. She should get tremendous praise for bringing forth this issue and keeping the fires burning and pushing the Senate to this end, and that would be terrific. Many of us would join that effort. But this is not the bill to do it on. This is not the place to do it. I would suggest that, again, taking this to the committee of jurisdiction, working it out, bringing the administration forward so we can actually make some real progress on curbing regulatory overreach by the Federal Government would be welcomed by all.
I see the Senator from Vermont is here on the floor. I am assuming he wants to talk.
How much time do we have remaining?
I thank the Chair.