I thank the Senator from Pennsylvania for his courtesy and pay tribute to him and the Judiciary Committee for their effort in dealing with this most vexatious problem. When the asbestos problem burst into the American consciousness,…
I thank the Senator from Pennsylvania for his courtesy and pay tribute to him and the Judiciary Committee for their effort in dealing with this most vexatious problem.
When the asbestos problem burst into the American consciousness, everyone was concerned there would be a way to compensate those who are victims of this difficulty. Unfortunately, certain members of the trial bar developed what I would call a business plan that was based on two fundamental principles: No. 1, venue shopping; and No. 2, a deliberate pattern of overwhelming the legal system so the various cases could not be heard on their merits.
Those who adopted this business plan have been tremendously successful. They have driven 75 companies into bankruptcy. They have created enormous litigation all over the country. Unfortunately, the outcome in terms of the victims has not been what anyone would want, with the possible exception of those who were behind the creation of the business plan in the first place.
The net effect of what we have seen in the asbestos litigation is to take an American tragedy and turn it into an American disaster, with a relative pittance for the victims; an undeserved windfall for people who have no health problems; and an overwhelming bumper crop of cash for the trial lawyers who developed the plan in the first place.
There is a great uprising of demand that we do something about this. That demand is legitimate. The Congress should act. We do need a national solution, even though we have seen progress take place--not at the Federal level but at the State level. It is very interesting to watch what has been happening as various States have grappled with this challenge and done their best to deal with the two problems I have identified: the venue shopping and the strategy of overwhelming the system.
One breakthrough in this regard came from a Federal judge. Her name was Janis Jack. I am told she had something of a medical background. She was trained as a nurse. So when these cases came before her she instinctively realized there was something fundamentally wrong with the medical claims. Without going into the detail of what happened before Judge Jack, I quote the statements she made as she handed down her scathing decision:
These diagnoses were driven by neither health nor justice,
they were manufactured for money. The court finds that filing
and then persisting in the prosecution of silicosis claims,
while recklessly disregarding the fact there is no reliable
basis for believing that every plaintiff has silicosis,
constitutes an unreasonable multiplication of the
proceedings.
I pause here to say she is highlighting what I talked about before, that there was a conscious business plan to overwhelm the system. She calls it ``an unreasonable multiplication of the proceedings.''
Continuing the quote:
When factoring the obvious motivation, overwhelming the
system to prevent examination of each individual claim, and
to extract mass settlements, the behavior becomes vexatious,
as well. Therefore, the court finds that the firm will be
required to satisfy personally the excess costs, expenses,
and attorney fees reasonably incurred because of such
conduct.
I am not a lawyer, but I understand when a Federal judge uses the words ``vexatious'' it is probably not good for the people who are in her court listening to her. And she is requiring the law firm that brought the case to pay all of the costs of the case. That has sent a chill throughout the plaintiff's bar who thought they had a free ride with their business plan.
The other thing that has happened as various States have looked at this has been the setting up of inactive dockets, or deferral registries, two terms with which I was unfamiliar before I got into this. They make eminent good sense. All they do is say to those plaintiffs who, in fact, are not sick: We will let your claim stand, we will not dismiss it out of hand, but we will put it in an inactive docket or a deferral registry. In other words, your claim cannot be pursued until you get sick. Just because you have a doctor's certificate that says you might get sick does not mean you are entitled to damages.
Interestingly enough, the fallout from Judge Jack's ruling where she found that doctors had gone beyond medical practice in order to give these certifications that would allow people to come forward as if they were plaintiffs, means that some doctors are facing jail time and some lawyers are facing jail time as a result of the findings in Judge Jack's court.
The combination of a judge who finally says, You need to focus on whether people are ill, and State legislation that says, We will not allow the courts to be overwhelmed by the claims of those who are not ill, has begun to taper off the level of asbestos cases and has caused some people to say we have turned the corner; that the trust fund established in the bill before us is an idea whose time has gone; that it is not necessary to have a trust fund to deal with these issues. Others say: No, we have to have the trust fund. We have to have the bill before us.
One of the perplexing things to me, as I listened to people in the business community discuss this, has been to discuss how split the business community is, how there are so many companies that come to me passionate in their insistence this bill be passed, or they say there will be disaster going on uninterrupted into the unknown future.
Just as passionate are other companies who come to my office, sit down with me and say: This bill is the biggest disaster we have ever seen. You cannot allow it to happen. If this bill happens, we will go out of business.
That is not a minor gulf between the proponents and the opponents. I have tried to figure out why business men and women examining this as dispassionately as they can have come to
such diametrically opposite positions. I have found, for me, what is an explanation. I have prepared two charts that will demonstrate this. Both of these are based on assumptions. We must understand that this entire debate is based on assumptions. No one really knows.
There are those who say the $140 billion called for in the trust fund will be more than enough to take care of all of the claims. There are those who say it is nowhere near enough.
There are those who say the claims will go down as a result of the trust fund, and there are those who say the claims will increase as a result of the trust fund. No matter how you slice it, every argument everybody is making, including the ones I will make, is based on an assumption that is not provable. But I have done the very best I can to come up with sources that are reliable.
So here is why I think the business community is split. It has to do with where you fall on the trust fund chart, what tier you are in, and basically how much money you have to pay.
Here is the first list that comes up, and this is compiled by a consulting firm to the bankruptcy court that looked at asbestos claims. I have summarized in this column of the chart, if there is no trust fund, the estimated liabilities of the companies listed. That means, Armstrong World Industries, according to the consulting firm, if there is no trust fund, will face a liability of roughly $2 billion. Babcock & Wilcox will face a liability of roughly $2 billion--and so on all the way down--U.S. Gypsum, $4 billion. I will come back to U.S. Gypsum in a minute because it helps make my point. So this is the column that shows the liability of these 10 companies if the trust fund is not enacted.
Now, this is the column that shows what they will pay to the trust fund. In other words, their liability will go from this number to this number, if the trust fund is established. Here in this column is the difference. For these 10 companies, it is $20 billion.
If I were the CEO of any one of those companies, I would be very strongly for the trust fund. Now, I reject the idea this is being driven by K Street and lobbyists. This is a very logical business decision on the part of the CEOs of these companies, and I do not think any of them had anything to do with this allocation. It is the way the trust fund was structured. As they read the details, they said: This makes good sense for us. Let's be for it.
But out of this chart comes a fundamental question that I have at the bottom of the chart. If there is a $20 billion difference between their liabilities and their contributions, who will make up the difference?
So now let's go to the second chart.
On this chart is a list of companies with estimated outlays, if there is no trust fund, that will be substantially less than those on the first chart. Foster Wheeler--I understand this number may change. These are estimates. All of these numbers may change. But I have heard, just this morning: Hey, we are trying to recalculate that, Senator. We want you to be exactly accurate. It might be $79 million, but it may not. But it will be relatively low compared to the number on the next chart. So let's understand all of these.
But here is Foster Wheeler, Oglebay Norton. They will have no obligation--no obligation--if the trust fund does not pass. Why? Because they have insurance. They took precautions. They have insurance that will pay the claims. They will have no obligation. National Service Industries will have $11 million if the trust fund is not enacted, and so on.
Now, Oglebay Norton will owe the trust fund $495 million in order to be relieved of zero obligation if the trust fund does not pass. Who will make up the difference? It will be made up by companies like these, some of which earn so much lower numbers than the numbers that are here that this could very easily jeopardize their survival. Some of the companies on this chart might not survive if the trust fund is passed. You have no obligation, but you have to pay half a billion dollars over a 30-year period?
There are some companies here whose total revenue is $100 million a year, and their annual responsibility to the trust fund is $19 million. Twenty percent of their total revenues will be required, and they have no exposure or relatively no exposure. There is not a company here with exposure, no matter how high it may be, that would not be satisfied by 2 or 3 years' contribution to the trust fund, but they are going to have to make that contribution for 30 years.
The companies on the first chart will see their stocks go up dramatically as soon as this bill is passed, and I do not begrudge them that. I think that is wonderful. But the other companies that will make up the difference will not only see their stocks fall, they may disappear and see their employees put out of jobs, their employees put on the unemployment line.
I do not think there was anything sinister about the way in which the trust fund decisions were made. But I do not think it has been analyzed properly with respect to the real-world impact of those decisions. So, to me, that is why we have the split in the business community, with some companies saying this is a great idea, and other companies saying, with some irony, over our dead body, because they may be very much dealing with a dead body here.
All right. Does that argue that we should not have Federal legislation? No. The progress in the States, causing this level of litigation to level out and begin to turn down, is not even throughout the country. We need a national standard. Ohio has led the way. Ohio has bills that are causing the litigation to begin to dry up. We are seeing the pattern of venue shopping dry up. But we still do not have any action out of California or New York. And, if I may, I remember when the Governor of Utah was once asked: What is the greatest economic development agency you have in Utah? And he said: The California State Legislature.
I think we can wait a long time before the California State Legislature can be depended upon to deal with this issue. So we do need a national bill.
But the one thing everybody on either one of these charts wants is certainty.
Let's go back to the first chart and the example I was talking about with respect to U.S. Gypsum or USG. Within the last week or two, USG announced they were setting up a reserve for their asbestos liabilities. They said: We are setting up the reserve with $900 million in cash and $3 billion in contingent notes. Their stock went up 15 percent the next day because their investors said there is a degree of certainty.
Now, if you take that $3.9 billion figure they determined was the amount of their liability and you compare it to what the consultants said their liability was--$4 billion--you are very much in the ballpark with roughly the same figure. Now, the interesting thing about the contingent notes they said they would sign for the $3 billion is the contingency. The contingency was whether this bill passes. If this bill does not pass, they will then be on the hook for the $3 billion in contingent notes. If the bill does pass, they are out with only the $900 million. As we see, they are only required to pay, under the trust fund, $797 million. So as to the $900 million, they may even get a refund from that if this bill passes.
That demonstrates the value of certainty. They came up with certainty, one way or the other, and their stock went up 15 percent. We can give people certainty with the right kind of Federal bill that does not have the problems that this trust fund has.
So what do I search for in a bill? Well, the first one should be obvious from the presentation I have made: a restructuring of the liabilities in the trust fund. And if the trust fund were to go away, that would not bother me either, if we could have an understanding of how we could take the experience in the States and make it work on the Federal level.
Back to Judge Jack and her rulings and the actions of the various States, we discovered there really are only a few things that need to be done to tame this monster.
The first one is to stop the venue shopping. Well, if we pass a Federal bill, we can do that. The Judiciary Committee has worked hard in that direction, and I commend them for it.
No. 2, building on what Judge Jack discovered, we can have the right kind of medical certification. All she did was force these people to prove they were injured and the claims went away. I am not satisfied the medical certification in this bill is strong enough. I
would prefer to take the kind of medical certification we have at the State level, particularly Ohio, and say if we can write that into the Federal bill, then we are on our way toward realizing Judge Jack's goal in eliminating those who are not medically certified.
The third thing we can do is adopt the position that many of the State courts have adopted, which simply says: You can file your claim if you are not sick because you think you might be, but we are going to put that claim in an inactive docket, or a deferral registry--pick whichever term of art you prefer--and it will sit there unacted upon until you can come in and prove you are sick.
If we can do those three things--stop the venue shopping, get a legitimate medical certification, and set up inactive dockets--at the Federal level, the State experience says we can solve this problem. Whether there is a role in all of that for the trust fund, I am not sure.
I am enormously respectful of the senior Senator from Pennsylvania. He is a close, personal friend and has been the entire time I have been in the Senate. I commend him and the members of the Judiciary Committee for their efforts in working on this bill. But I do have a sense that in their focus on the disaster this has been throughout our history they have crafted a solution that, like the generals in the Army, may be the solution to the last war. They may have been fighting the last war instead of addressing what has currently happened.
So I understand the Senator from Texas has an amendment, which I intend to support. I understand the Senator from Arizona, Mr. Kyl, has a provision that presumably will affect this difference between people on the two lists. I am interested in that. I am not sure it is the solution, but I want to move in this direction. I think we need a bill. I want to support a bill. As the bill currently stands, I think it is in need of the kinds of changes I have outlined.
I am happy to yield.
I thank the Senator for his kind words. We will continue to be on opposite sides of the spectrum, but we will continue to be good friends.
In response to his specific question: Yes, the GAO has done a study of Federal trust funds and has found that as a general rule, the creation of a trust fund creates roughly twice as many claims as was anticipated at the time of their creation. This doesn't automatically mean twice as much money. In some cases, it means substantially more than twice as much money. And in one case, it means the amount of money stayed the same because the amount proclaimed was less than projected.
The one thing we can draw from that experience is what I said at the beginning of my remarks. Virtually everything we are saying about this is a guess. Everything we are assuming is based on an extrapolation based on other assumptions. We cannot, with any certainty, say that the trust fund will be sufficient or that it will not be sufficient. The one thing that we can say with certainty is, this is how much you will have to pay if the trust fund is created. That, as I say, is the reason for the split in the business community. As people have done the numbers, some say: I am better off in the tort system. Others say: I will pay anything to get out of the tort system.
The trust fund needs to be manipulated, if we are going to keep the trust fund, to make sure that there is a greater degree of fairness on the part of those who are contributing to it.
This is taxation with a vengeance on the part of the Federal Government for many of these companies. And some companies are saying: We are willing to pay that tax rate. Others are saying: Under no circumstances.
It will be very interesting if a conversation is held with those companies fighting for the bill and the proposition is made, if you really want the bill, will you increase the amount of your contribution to the trust fund so that the amount for some of these other companies will go down? That will be an interesting conversation. I understand some people are thinking about having it. I would like to be present when it is had, to see where we go with this.
I yield the floor.