Mr. President, the hour of 4 o'clock has come and gone. That was the hour by which all amendments to the bill had to be submitted. We had 120. We have disposed affirmatively of 31 of those, and we are not at all sure the other roughly 90…
Mr. President, the hour of 4 o'clock has come and gone. That was the hour by which all amendments to the bill had to be submitted. We had 120. We have disposed affirmatively of 31 of those, and we are not at all sure the other roughly 90 are all going to be offered.
The majority leader has made it clear he wants to finish this bill tonight, and so I say to those who have amendments still on the list, if they do not show up to offer their amendments, we will move to third reading at an appropriate time. We want to accommodate the majority leader's desire. I think it is the desire of most of the Members of the Senate to move forward. So I say to the other Members who do have amendments, you are on notice that if you do not let us know you are going to be here and try to reserve some time to call up your amendment, we will indeed move to third reading. There are hotlines that have been going out to Senators who have amendments filed to give them that message. We will go forward in that fashion.
Amendments Nos. 1754 and 1755
Mr. President, I do have two additional amendments to those that have already been cleared, which I send to the desk and ask for their immediate consideration. Both are on behalf of Senator Salazar of Colorado.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that reading of the amendments be dispensed with.
Mr. President, I call for a vote on the two amendments.
Mr. President, I move to reconsider the vote and move to lay that motion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.
With that, Mr. President, we continue to go through the amendments that are available to us to see if they can be cleared on both sides in an effort to get them cleared. But I say, once again, to Senators who may be watching, we need to have an understanding of whether you are coming forward. We will soon reach the point where the amendments that can be cleared on both sides have been. At that point, if a Senator has not notified us of his intention to proceed and has not shown up, we will move to third reading.
I thank the Presiding Officer. We were aware of his intention to offer his amendments, and we will not take advantage of him being trapped in the Chair to move ahead without protecting his rights and his interests.
Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a quorum.
Mr. President, we are making progress. I see the Senator from Minnesota on the floor and hope that he can proceed with his amendment.
Mr. President, the amendment offered by the Senator from Minnesota does involve some cost. We are, at the moment, unable to have a score from CBO. We are working on getting a scoring from CBO, so I ask we not vote on this amendment at the present time, until we get that.
I will say to the Senator and to Senators, generally, since the passage of the bill by the committee, we have had a number of requests, such as the one from the Senator from Minnesota, many of which appear to be meritorious but when added together, we get a sum of money that we simply cannot sustain under our allocation. So we have taken the position that we will not entertain these additional requests for money.
There are a number of Senators who have been disappointed as a result of that position, including, if I may say, the Senator from Utah. I felt that I had to deal with everybody equally, and those requests that have come in from my own State since the passage of the bill by the committee, with some difficulty, I have had to say to people, I cannot treat Utah differently than others.
This is a meritorious issue the Senator has raised, and I am not saying we will automatically oppose it because it does add to the list that I described. Because we want to know exactly what the number would be and get the information from CBO, I ask that we set this one aside for the time being, and when we have that information, then I
will be in a better position to respond to the Senator's amendment.
Mr. President, I thank the Senator for his comment and assure him this is no burden, and we will do the best we can.
Mr. President, the Senator from Oklahoma is correct in the comments that he makes about the GAO and their study of this program. We have looked into it for the same reasons that the Senator from Oklahoma has and find that there have been mistakes made and there have been overestimates made. However, we have also discovered that the Department has recognized this and has made changes in the program, and the Department has reacted to the criticism that has come from the GAO.
The estimates that we have before us in this bill we believe are sound and the concern we have is that there is, in fact, no extra money sitting around. If we were to accept the amendment the Senator has offered, there would, in fact, be people who are currently in low- income housing who would lose that housing. They would lose that housing immediately upon passage of this bill.
It is further, of course, exacerbated by the situation created by Katrina, in that people have lost their housing by virtue of the hurricane, and to see others who have not been affected by the hurricane turned out because of the cutback in this program is something I do not think anybody would want to see.
The President requested $650 million, as the Senator said. We are at $653 million, based on the information that we have from the Department, which we now believe is far more accurate than the information of previous years. The GAO criticism is correct about misestimates.
Also, we point out these are 4-year contracts, so that something that appears to be money sitting there is, in fact, not necessarily money sitting there. It is money that has been committed over the 4-year contract. This is not just a single year's appropriation.
For these reasons I would have to oppose the amendment of the Senator because I believe in the present circumstances we do not want to have the consequence of having people who are currently in housing, currently receiving aid under this program, lose that aid and have to leave their housing. If it were entirely prospective, I would be more sympathetic to the amendment of the Senator, but all of the information I have is that it would, in fact, cause people who are currently receiving this to lose their housing.
I know the Senator from Oklahoma has some other amendments. I would like to give as much notice as possible to Senators around the city as to when we would take a vote. The Senator from Oklahoma says he would like to have this the subject of a rollcall vote. Of course, we will accommodate him. But if we could find out what other amendments the Senator has, and see if we could have a discussion and then set a time for those votes to be stacked--if indeed he wishes to have additional rollcall votes?
I ask if the Senator could respond to that.
Mr. President, I am unaware of the existence of the cushion. I would be happy to work with the Senator to try to find out exactly whether there is one and how much it is. But the information that I received both from the staff and, admittedly, from the Department, is there is no cushion and passage of this amendment would, in fact, cause people who are currently in housing to lose their housing.
I am not in a position to challenge the Senator's sources. I simply state that my sources have given me an additional answer. I have not looked over the books. I have not personally gone into the accounting of this situation, and therefore I am not in a position to do any more than state, as I have stated, that my information is different than his.
Clearly, this is a subject that needs to be pursued. I congratulate him on raising it. The question for the Senate now is how we proceed on this amendment, whether the Senator will ask for a rollcall vote and, if he does, when we schedule it.
Very good. We will have that discussion. As I say, my desire is to give Senators notice if they are at a location sufficiently far from
the Capitol that they need a heads up. That is the only concern that I have. I will be here. I will be prepared to vote virtually at any time.
Mr. President, as I examine this question, it is a question that involves the traditions and procedures of the full committee. At the risk of being accused of dodging, I would prefer to have Senator Cochran as chairman of the full committee examine and respond.
We have reached out to get hold of Senator Cochran to see if he is willing to do that. But this would be a departure from previous procedures.
As I understand, the Senator from Oklahoma would like there to be a permanent departure that occurs on virtually every appropriations bill from here on out. For that reason, I am a little reluctant to set a precedent on the bill over which I have responsibility which might then be cited as a precedent for all the other bills that would follow.
For that reason, I hope we can have Senator Cochran appear and have his position before we come to the question of whether or not we vote on it.
Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a quorum.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order for the quorum call be dispensed with.
Mr. President, I call for the regular order on the Coburn amendment No. 1773.
Mr. President, I call for a vote on this by voice.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the time between now and 7 o'clock be evenly divided between myself and Senator Bingaman from New Mexico, with the vote on the Coburn amendment No. 1775 to occur at 7 o'clock to be followed by a vote on the Bingaman amendment, with the yeas and nays ordered in both instances with no other amendments being allowed to either amendment prior to the time.
Mr. President, I call for the yeas and nays.
Mr. President, I renew my request.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that between the two votes there be a period of 2 minutes for explanation equally divided between the Senator from New Mexico and myself.
Mr. President, there is no question but that an education program to try to get our young people to eat better makes sense. There is no question that we should do what we can to deal with the challenge of obesity.
Now let us look at a few realities with which we are faced. The President requested $10.25 million for the program. The amendment offered by Senator Bingaman and Senator Lugar would virtually double that amount. There is no other program we are dealing with where the request is to double the funds. We have people who are requesting incremental increases of 5 percent and 10 percent, but quite frankly we have resisted.
The total number of earmarks and requests that have come in since the committee acted is over $50 million. We have stood firm against all of them and said we are sorry, the money isn't there. We feel we have to stand firm against it. So this $10 million would double the program as it currently exists and would be 20 percent of the total amount we on the subcommittee have said we cannot fund.
The offset is very interesting. It is the common computer environment. It always seems easy to say, well, we can get by, by delaying activity with the computers. Let's cut the computers because education is more important.
During the debate we have had today, we have heard complaints from people about interoperability, about inability to communicate in the time of emergency. Katrina has exposed problems with computers. If we were to cut the computer program as drastically as this would cut it, we run the risk of closing county offices. We run the risk of stopping the modernization of services right at a time when complaints are coming in about how antiquated those services are.
But interestingly, as the $50 million requests have come in, almost all of them, when we told them you have to have an offset, say let's cut the computers. If indeed we responded to every one of the requests for additional spending, we would have cut the computers $50 million.
I don't want to cut the computers at all. I accept the arguments that say we have challenges with communication in the Department; we need to have as modern a communication system as we possibly can. The common computer environment that is trying to create that interoperability should be encouraged and maintained.
For that reason, as fond as I am of the Senator from New Mexico and the Senator from Indiana, I have to oppose this amendment. I will ask my colleagues, when the time comes for the rollcall vote, to oppose it. There will be another bill next year. We will see where we are next year with overall spending. We will see where we are with respect to emergencies and how the Department of Agriculture is dealing with those emergencies.
I am convinced when we come to that, as we sift through all the damage that is done by Katrina and perhaps by Rita and other challenges, we would like to have as powerful and as modern a computer system to deal with communications as we possibly can.
For those reasons, the doubling of a program at a time of budget constraints that we find ourselves in, and taking the offset from a program where we feel we need to be as modern as we possibly can, gives me two reasons to say that I would be opposed to this amendment.
I still have an additional 5 minutes and I frankly have said all I need to say. I yield back the remainder of my time. If the Senator from New Mexico wishes to claim it, I am happy to have him use it; otherwise, we can go into a quorum call until such time as the vote starts at 7 o'clock, unless there are other Senators who wish to speak.
Mr. President, we have had previous conversations about the effectiveness of the Agriculture Department. We are talking about our own backgrounds. I have a little bit of
background in advertising. I would be anxious before we spend this money to do a little analysis of how effective the advertising has been.
You talk about instruction in schools. We all know that there are instructions that work and there are instructions that don't. My own experience is that the Government is not very good at advertising healthy lifestyle changes. We could have been spending--I have no idea. We have not researched this at all. I have no idea where the evidence might be. We could have been spending the 21 cents per pupil and wasting every bit of it in terms of results.
I have something of a background in advertising and I know how much advertising budgets get wasted simply because the advertising campaign is not effectively carried out.
I recommend to my colleagues we defeat this amendment and if, indeed, the Senator from Oklahoma and the Senator from New Mexico can examine this from their background and demonstrate we are getting a 17-to-1 return from this particular program, that we are getting a 17-to-1 return from the kind of instruction going on in classrooms, then I would be happy to endorse this at some future time.
In terms of what has been the result of the $10 million we have been spending, how certain will we be that doubling that is going to, in fact, increase health among our children? It may well be that a GAO study would say the $10 million has been spent on training materials that have been ineffective and produced no result whatever.
In effect, we are being asked to buy something of a pig in a poke without understanding exactly how it works. I hope we would stay with the committee allocation here. The issue is a very legitimate issue. I, for one, will be more than willing in the hearings to ask the Department to give us a demonstration of how effective this has been.
If it can be demonstrated that it has, in fact, reduced obesity and has had some impact on diabetes, at that point I would be all for doubling it or tripling it because of the 17-to-1 figure the Senator from Oklahoma cites. But lacking that information, in this particular situation I would be loathe to proceed.
Mr. President, I have a unanimous consent request in which all Senators, I believe, will be interested.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that after the next vote, there be no other rollcall votes until 9:30 tomorrow morning, with the understanding that all amendments will be offered tonight, all debate will take place tonight, and all votes that occur tomorrow will be stacked to be followed by final passage.
That means, Mr. President, that there will be no more votes tonight, and amendments that require rollcall votes will be voted on in the morning, and that we will go to final passage immediately at 9:30 tomorrow after disposing of any rollcall votes. We have several amendments pending which we hope we can deal with by voice votes tonight, and I hope that we will not have any more rollcall votes and can go immediately to final passage.
Mr. President, the President's request for this program was $10 million. This amendment doubles it and takes the money away from computers at a time when the Department is doing its very best to increase its interoperability and raise its level of technological ability. I do not think doubling a program that has not been evaluated for its effectiveness is the right thing to do in this time of heavy budget pressure.
I urge my colleagues to oppose the amendment.
Mr. President, I ask that we proceed to a vote on the Harkin amendment by voice vote.
I move to lay that motion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.
Mr. President, I am unaware of any other Senator who is planning to offer any amendment. I don't want to cut anybody off, but I made it clear during the vote that all amendments have to be offered tonight and all debate take place tonight. We are scheduled for the vote tomorrow morning. My understanding is that the Dayton amendment is still pending, and, therefore, if it can't be disposed of tonight, it would be available for tomorrow morning. The Jeffords amendment is still pending, and if that cannot be resolved tonight, that would be voted on tomorrow morning. Those are
the only two I am aware of at the present time.
I will suggest the absence of a quorum so we can check the list and see who else might be out there. But I would say to any who are monitoring our procedures on behalf of their respective Senators that the time for offering amendments is getting mighty short. We don't want to deny any Senator his or her rights, but I feel we have given fair warning this is what we will do.
With that, I suggest the absence of a quorum.
Mr. President, no one has come forward, so we are prepared to close down with the two amendments still unresolved, Dayton and Jeffords, and then move to final passage after those two are resolved for a voice vote or yeas and nays, I assume which will be determined tomorrow. At the moment, the yeas and nays have not been ordered. I want to respect the rights of both of those Senators.
While we get together whatever final activity needs to go forward, I suggest the absence of a quorum.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order for the quorum call be dispensed with.
I would be pleased to yield to the senior Senator from Hawaii.
I would like to assure the Senator from Hawaii that I will work with Senator Kohl to ensure that this program will be considered in conference.
I concur with my colleague's views on the need to move this ARS position to Pullman, WA, from Prosser, WA, and will work with Senator Kohl in conference to have language included in the final report.
I thank Senator Martinez, for sharing his concerns on this important issue. It is my understanding that the House has appropriated $10 million for citrus canker compensation payments and we are aware of the impact that this disease has on the citrus industry in his State. We are committed to working with his office to help provide funding for his growers that have worked with USDA to help eradicate this destructive bacteria.