On The 57th Anniversary Of The Hungarian Uprising Of 1956--Hungary Remains A Nation Of Patriots
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honor the memory of the Hungarian freedom fighters who rose up against the communist tyranny that was imposed on their country after World War II. Many men and women died in that uprising--a courageous fight…
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to honor the memory of the Hungarian freedom fighters who rose up against the communist tyranny that was imposed on their country after World War II. Many men and women died in that uprising--a courageous fight against incredible odds, as the Soviets sent in tanks to restore the puppet regime they installed in 1948.
Mr. Speaker, as Chairman or Co-Chairman of the Helsinki Commission I have been on human rights missions to Hungary many times over the years. One of the things that most impresses me about this country is the deeply admirable patriotism of so many Hungarians. By patriotism I mean something very different from nationalism--whereas nationalists resent and are aggressive toward other countries, patriots love and defend their own country and its best traditions, and allow--invite-- other people to love their own countries and traditions.
This summer I visited Hungary on a congressional delegation ably led by my colleague on the Helsinki Commission, Senator Roger Wicker. We met with Prime Minister Orban and others, and it is in connection with this anniversary and our meeting with Prime Minister that I'd like to place into the record a recent interview Prime Minister Orban gave to the Telegraph.
I commend this to my colleagues as the words of a Prime Minister who thinks seriously and speaks frankly about issues facing his country and Europe as a whole.
Viktor Orban Interview: ``Patriotism Is a Good Thing''--The Prime Minister of Hungary, Viktor Orban, Tells the Telegraph Why His Country Agrees With Britain in Its Campaign Against the ``Creeping'' Power of
Brussels
(By Charles Moore)
15 Oct 2013
Viktor Orban has just had a good meeting with David
Cameron. It was easier than his first with Margaret Thatcher
(in 2001). ``I am not satisfied with you,'' were, he recalls,
her first words. She was angry that Hungary was not doing
more to help protect Nato's soldiers from Serb aggression.
Despite this rebuff, Mr Orban is a Thatcher admirer. His
political career began in 1988 when he was one of 37 young
students and intellectuals founding a party to attack
Communist rule in his country.
``Her role was very important: she was always in favour of
freedom, always anti-Communist. She said, `There is no such
thing as society.' I like that remark very much because in
European politics people were always talking in artificial
sociological language. Social engineering was very popular.''
When he attended Lady Thatcher's funeral in April, he was
pleased that the Bishop of London explained what she really
meant by those famous words. ``The funeral was very moving
and very British--not tragical, as it would be on the
Continent--more of a tribute.''
Young Viktor, a clever boy from a country background, won a
George Soros scholarship to Oxford to study civic society as
seen by liberal political philosophers such as John Locke. He
loved the ``electrifying dance'' of ideas there; but this was
the autumn of 1989 and the Berlin Wall was coming down. Here
was the chance actually to build a liberal civic society at
home. ``I said to myself, `Viktor, what are you doing here?'
and I took the occasion of our first free elections in March
1990 to go back.''
He became prime minister for the first time in 1998, until
2002, and then, after wilderness years, returned to power
with a landslide in 2010. His time in office has been
controversial. He has been accused, often by European Union
officials, of too much nationalism, of suppressing media
freedom, politicising the judiciary and the central bank, and
even of stirring up ethnic tensions. Has the great liberal
freedom-fighter narrowed? Is there a risk that he could
become an authoritarian strongman, the Vladimir Putin of his
country?
``The risk is there,'' Mr Orban rather surprisingly admits,
though it is much smaller if Hungary is economically
successful. He thinks that circumstances have changed.
[Update: The office of the Prime Minister of Hungary has
asked the Telegraph to clarify the reference to Vladimir
Putin in this interview. Mr Orbin intended to assent to there
being a risk that he could come to seem like a Putin of
Hungary, not actually to become one.]
For 200 years, the ``No. 1 motivation'' for Hungarians was
to catch up with more competitive Westerners. Until the
credit crisis, Mr Orban believed that this could only be
achieved by the ``ever-closer union'' of Europe. Now he has
his doubts.
The crisis shows that it is not obvious that the EU can do
better than independent nations. Unlike the British, he
cannot rule out joining the eurozone, because of its
centripetal pull for a small country like his, ``but I don't
urge it. To stand alone on your own feet is more important
than ever.'' Hungary certainly should not join until it
reaches 90 per cent of the GDP of those already in, he
believes; right now it is in the low sixties.
``As I get older [he is still only 50], I tend to be more
sceptical. Values are more important than money. National
sovereignty is more and more important in my mind. The
question `Who is governing us?' is the key question.''
So he supports David Cameron's efforts to change the
European rules: ``We shall need a new basic treaty
eventually.'' He wants to join Britain in resisting ``the
creeping movement of Brussels to eat up national
sovereignty''.
The old answer that everything Westerners did was better is
now ``stupid''. In the 1980s, the question Hungarians faced
was ``how to get rid of things''--Communism, state
oppression, overregulation. Now that should stop. There are
things which should be upheld in the interests of
civilisation, not jettisoned: ``It would be a sad story to
get rid of religious belief, national identity, family and
even sexual identity. That's not freedom.''
In some schools on the continent, the idea has got about
that ``children should not be brought up as girls or guys'',
but to choose their sexual identity later. ``Sometimes there
is a separate changing room for those who don't know who they
are,'' he exclaims.
What does he say to accusations that he is stirring up old
ethnic, territorial passions in the region? Some blame him
for the rise of the fascistic Jobbik party in Hungary. His
answer is based on his belief that ``Xenophobia is dangerous;
but patriotism is a good thing''. Ethnic disputes, often
about land, are ``a part of life in Eastern Europe'', he
says.
``How do we live with this?'' he asks, ``The solution is
not to lie.'' Radicals of both left and right get about 15
per cent of the vote between them. That is too high for
comfort, but ``far away from being a majority''.
At the heart of the problem in Europe, Mr Orban believes,
is the fact that the Communists were never fully defeated.
Communism as an ideology ``has no message for our future'',
but, unlike Nazism, it prevailed for so long (40 years in
Hungary's case) that its leaders, who ``were not stupid
guys'' created a culture which maintained their power. They
upheld envy ``as a perception of life'', making people
``disagree with the world as it is and try to destroy it''.
They also inculcated a belief in ``entitlements without any
personal effort''. In Hungary, Communism brought about what
he calls ``a learned helplessness'', a deliberate destruction
of personal responsibility, which crushed the middle class.
We discuss the row here about Ed Miliband and his Marxist
father. Without commenting on the Labour situation, Mr Orban
says that there is a family tree passing from Communism
through ``the `68 generation'' (such as the former
revolutionary, now MEP, Daniel Cohn Bendit) to Brussels
bureaucrats and the media today.
``The Communist heritage has a marriage with the radical
liberals today. That genealogy exists in Europe.'' He detects
it in the doctrine of European human rights and the attempts
by the European Commission to impose cultural and
constitutional uniformity on member states.
For conservatives, he goes on, this is difficult, because
``we find we must argue, and conservatives generally prefer
just to live. We are shy to invest the energy, but we must do
so at a European level.''
Personally, Vilctor Orban is not shy. He is up for the
fight. ``Boxing is a noble sport,'' he declares pugnaciously.
In the West, politics is often ``just a career''. For him, he
says, it is much more. He remembers the hard times in the
late 1980s when Fidesz, his then tiny party, was opposed by
the Soviets, by trade unions, militias and the state
apparatus. ``We were surrounded, and we won. Compare the risk
now--it's nothing. It's just a peanut.''