Mr. President, I would like to verify what the Senator from Illinois has said. Senator Roberts can't be here at this particular time, but he authorized me to say he is in agreement with this. It is a sensible approach. It is bipartisan in…
Mr. President, I would like to verify what the Senator from Illinois has said.
Senator Roberts can't be here at this particular time, but he authorized me to say he is in agreement with this. It is a sensible approach. It is bipartisan in nature. As far as we are concerned, there is agreement on both sides. What the managers decide is up to them.
Amendment No. 4036, As Modified
I move to lay that motion on the table.
The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the pending amendment be set aside, and I call up amendment No. 4030 at the desk and send a modification to the desk and ask that it be considered.
Mr. President, strengthening the two congressional Intelligence Committees was a fundamental part of the 9/11 Commission recommendations for improving congressional oversight. This is more of that. They made many recommendations, most of which were included in whole or in part in our resolution.
One area where the Commission did not make a specific recommendation but which is very important was the question of shared jurisdiction between the Intelligence Committee and other committees, specifically the Armed Services Committee. Under the current structure, other committees have the automatic right to receive sequential referral of any legislation reported by the Intelligence Committee if it touches on their jurisdiction. And the Intelligence Committee enjoys a reciprocal right of referral. In practice, this authority has been exercised hardly at all--very rarely, infrequently--at least by the Intelligence Committee, but it has become a bit of an annual routine for the Armed Services Committee to seek sequential referral of the intelligence authorization bill. This practice is based upon legitimate interests on the part of the Armed Services Committee. But the system has worked to the detriment of the Intelligence Committee and effective oversight. I will try to explain why.
Every year the intelligence authorization bill is referred to the Armed Services Committee for a period of not more than 30 days of legislative session. The Armed Services Committee almost always holds the bill for a full 30 days which can, in fact, work out to 2 calendar months, when you really carry that math out. This allows them to review the bill, which is important and proper, but it puts the Intelligence Committee far behind in the annual legislative process. By which I mean by the time the bill is reported, after a sequential referral by the Armed Services Committee, acted on by the Senate, and negotiated with the House, the annual appropriations bill often is already enacted into law.
For example, this year our authorization bill has not been dealt with. The appropriations bill has been passed in the Senate. This is an awkward way to do business. So we too often have been unable to provide the appropriators with the benefit of the work of the intelligence oversight committees. Timely passage of the intelligence authorization bill would become even more critical with the creation of a new appropriations subcommittee on intelligence.
In order for this new system to work, the Intelligence Committee has to be integral to the whole process. That is the whole point. We have to make changes in the way the sequential referral authority works. So Senator Evan Bayh offered an amendment to completely strike the language that provides for automatic sequential referral, and that is certainly one way to approach it. It has some downsides.
The Armed Services Committee and other committees have legitimate interests that need to be protected. Doing away with the provision also would remove the Intelligence Committee's ability to request the referral of legislation reported by other committees when that legislation relates to intelligence matters.
Finally, completely removing the referral authority would have the inevitable result--and this is sort of the soul of this institution--of alienating the Intelligence and Armed Services Committees. This is something we cannot afford and must not do. The committees have to work together constantly on a wide range of issues.
To achieve what Senator Bayh and myself and others want, all of us seeking more effective intelligence oversight, we have worked out a compromise, I am very happy to report. The amendment I have offered significantly reduces the amount of time that another committee has available to review legislation reported by the Intelligence Committee and vice versa. That time goes from 30 days of legislative session down to 10.
But hold on. The amendment also makes clear that the clock does not begin until the committee receiving our bill has all the relevant classified annexes available for review which could be thousands of pages.
According to our compromise, an additional 5 days of sequential referral can be added if requested by the majority or the minority leaders. That struck people as wise and useful. So when there is a legitimate need to have more scrutiny by the Armed Services Committee, they would make that request, and it would, of course, be granted.
This is made easier under the new structure because the chairman and the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee are now ex officio members of the new Intelligence Committee. We welcome their participation. I don't think it will do anything but strengthen our committee more. In fact, I think we will end up with five members of the Armed Services Committee on our Intelligence Committee, and that is good.
So I thank Senator Bayh for bringing this issue to the attention of the Senate. I thank Senators Levin and Warner for their willingness and insistence on finding a middle ground. I really mean I thank them. I thank both the majority and minority leaders who were instrumental in reaching this agreement because we were back and forth all day long.
Finally, I thank, of course, my chairman, Senator Roberts, for his help in crafting this compromise. I urge my colleagues to support the amendment.
I yield the floor.
Mr. President, I thank the distinguished chairman, the Senator from Kansas. I say to the Chair, I was downstairs and I had a wonderful opportunity to spend some time talking with Senator Byrd. We do not have that much opportunity to talk with each other--all of us--and I enjoyed it. Then I began to listen to the conversation. I began to think, I don't know of any committee in the Congress which is more specifically and more logically set up with respect to representation from other committees.
We have the Foreign Relations Committee. We have the Judiciary Committee. We have the Appropriations Committee. We have the Armed Services Committee. We have general members. We are actually going to grow somewhat smaller probably as a result of this intelligence reform. So everybody is represented.
One of the things I have also noticed is that there are a number of Senators--unfortunately not the majority of them, but a number of them--who will come in early in the morning, and they will get with my staff or Senator Roberts' staff and they will say: I want to read stuff that I can only read inside these closed facilities. It may be a National Intelligence Estimate. It may be parts of a report. But we operate openly within a very discreet and necessarily secreted space.
It does not occur to me that Foreign Relations is denied access. Everybody, by definition of being a Senator, belongs to the Intelligence Committee by way of information. It would be perfectly honest to say sometimes taking the 3 or 4 hours, as a number of Senators do, they come in and read and sometimes those are much more productive than even some of the hearings that we might have where everybody gets 5-minute questioning rounds, and Senators will take that.
Is it true we have a special relationship with the Armed Services Committee? Yes, it is true because a great deal of the Armed Services budget interacts and relates to what is going on in intelligence. This evening, we passed a very carefully crafted compromise between sequential referral because the relationship between Armed Services and Intelligence is necessarily complex and can have tension or less tension, and we want to try and keep it having less tension.
We have a very small space. Our hearing room is the smallest hearing room I have ever been in, in either the State legislature or the Senate. It seems to me the particular committees that have jurisdiction are represented. They are represented under S. Res. 400. It is very formal, it is very exacting, and just as Senator Lugar--I am so distressed to see Senator Lugar leave the committee because he was so good at it, but that was the 8-year limit, which is now hopefully going to disappear.
There is representation, I say very honestly to my friend from Delaware. There is representation. The Senator is always welcome. The Senator has as much right and access--equal and not one-quarter of 1 percent less--to what goes on in terms of the intelligence that is available to us, Chairman Roberts or myself and other members of our committee--now 17, soon to be 15--have.
I would just hope that that particular relationship of armed services would be understood. The chairman is on the Armed Services Committee and that is a conflict. It tears at him because he is chairman of one and very senior on the other, but we work it out. We simply work it out because we stay with it.
Again, I say that being on Intelligence is sort of like 100 percent of your time, and I think the quickest way to achieve that is to come in and do the reading. I am thinking of a lot of Senators, whose names are going through my head as I speak, who do that. They come in at 7 in the morning. My staff and the chairman's staff are there. They accommodate them. They say: What do you want to read? And they make it available. They sit down and read and they walk away and they have gotten an enormous amount of information.
So I think the system works pretty well.
I think the committees are accommodating, and I would hope that the Senator would be understanding of that.
Yes.
I would be happy to do my best to respond.
I say to the distinguished ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee, that, in fact, to get into the room space is a problem. We do not have a single place to put a single person except in the back of the room. Now, that embarrasses me to say that, but it is a fact.
Secondly, I differ with the ranking member when he says that reading does not count that much. Reading and knowing the material, whether it is WMD or whether it is predictions, or whatever it is, is the greatest part of it.
The hearings are tremendously important and they are the democratic part of it so everybody has a chance to ask questions, but I know of nothing which precludes the ranking member being able to do that. For example, to staff, it is a matter of just saying, I want to know the answers.
The Senator has the same privileges on Intelligence that this Senator does, I would say through the Chair.