Mr. President, I begin by thanking my colleague from Oregon for his work on this amendment. I am pleased to join as a cosponsor. As he pointed out, this is ultimately about what kind of an energy policy we want, what kind of an economic…
Mr. President, I begin by thanking my colleague from Oregon for his work on this amendment. I am pleased to join as a cosponsor. As he pointed out, this is ultimately about what kind of an energy policy we want, what kind of an economic policy makes sense, and whether we can do the right thing and protect taxpayers from being exposed to the potential liability and cost that Senator Wyden described.
This provision we are trying to strike in this bill guarantees 50 percent of the construction costs of up to six nuclear powerplants. Those plants could cost anywhere from $2 to $4 billion. And any taxpayer out there can simply do the math as to what kind of exposure this would provide.
It has been a pleasure to work with the Senator from Oregon. We are going to get into the substance of this debate and the details of this debate over the next couple of hours, but at this time I yield the floor to the Senator from Nevada, who has been a very strong voice on this and other matters having to do with energy.
Mr. President, I thank my colleague, the Senator from New Mexico, Mr. Bingaman, for his comments and his very well-reasoned argument on behalf of our amendment.
As I indicated in my earlier comments, this is part and parcel of a debate as to what an energy policy really should be in our country. I support a number of initiatives that I think would help ensure access to stable, reliable sources of energy for our country's economy so it can continue to grow. That means conservation, and we just had an amendment that sets a target of conserving some 1 billion gallons of gasoline in our automotive industries over the next decade.
We also need to make sure we have good, sound infrastructure for transporting electricity or natural gas across State lines and around the country. We want a good strong electricity title. That has been the effort and the work of the Energy Committee. We need to make sure we streamline and reduce unnecessary regulations. I will come back to this point shortly, but that is one of the real problems the nuclear industry faces right now: uncertainty due to complexity in the regulatory environment where the process of building or licensing a plant can be halted multiple times throughout the licensing process.
Of course, I believe, as I hope most Americans do, that we need access to new energy sources and new energy reserves, and that is why I supported exploration in the northern slope of Alaska.
At the same time, we need to be careful that our energy policy is not about trying to pick winners and losers in the energy markets; that we not digress toward a subsidy ``arms race.'' We heard people argue if we give a subsidy to this industry, we should give it to another, tax credits there or how about a subsidy here. We should not have a subsidy ``arms race'' where we burden the taxpayers because that is who is paying for all of this policy, giving out subsidies to industries that are favored at a particular point in time. And we certainly should not single out an industry, as unfortunately a portion of this bill does, for an unprecedented loan guarantee, unprecedented taxpayer guarantees for the construction of new powerplants. Whether this is targeted at the coal-fired electricity industry or natural gas-fired plants or, as in this case, nuclear plants, I think it is questionable public policy to provide such loan guarantees.
We are putting the taxpayer at risk, and we can call five different economists to try to estimate the size and scope of that risk, but the provision of the bill we seek to strike allows the Secretary of Energy to provide loan guarantees for up to half the cost of up to six plants. That is 50 percent of the cost for six plants, each perhaps costing between $2 billion and $4 billion. That is a $10 billion to $15 billion subsidy.
The Congressional Research Service, which is about as nonpartisan as you can get, states that the maximum Federal cost will be in the range of $14 billion to $16 billion in 2002 dollars. The Congressional Budget Office states that the risk of default on these guarantees would be quite high, well above 50 percent.
It is difficult to forecast risk. It is difficult to forecast cost. Whether these were guarantees for 25 percent of the cost or 50 or 100 percent or for one plant or for 71 plants, my concerns and I think the concerns of the Senator from Oregon would still be the same: this sets a bad precedent in singling out one industry for this type of a construction loan guarantee. It sets a bad precedent because in all likelihood other areas of private industry would, in the long run, seek to be treated in the same way. Of course, it sets a bad precedent in that it is an unprecedented sum, an unprecedented guarantee.
I would very much like to see a strong and revitalized nuclear industry, and I credit the chairman of the Energy Committee for focusing on this issue in his bill, extending Price-Anderson, investing in basic research, physics and nuclear technologies, and pushing forward scientific and research initiatives that he has included in the bill.
I disagree on some of the slight nuances of those provisions, whether they are exactly the right size or targeted to the right areas, but I give him a lot of credit for focusing on strengthening our nuclear power industry. I simply do not believe this kind of a guarantee is right for any industry. Equally important, perhaps more important, I do not believe this kind of a taxpayer subsidy is right for the men and women of our nation who are working long and hard, sending their taxes to Washington, and expecting them to be used fairly and equitably.
There is a lot of uncertainty in the energy markets and in the nuclear power industry in particular, and we can ask the question why are not more plants being built, why have we not had a new plant licensed in over 20 years? I think the answer can be found in the uncertainty and the risk created by the regulatory markets, created by the litigious society that we live in and the fact that the licensing process can be brought to a dead halt time and again. Whether or not we have the technology that would allow us to build a nuclear powerplant for $100 million or $500 million versus $2 billion, this uncertainty is enough to discourage capital markets from lending to the large private companies that are engaged in the nuclear power industry.
I think we will not find private resources being attracted to the nuclear industry, and we should not find taxpayer resources subsidizing the industry, until something is done about that uncertainty and that regulatory complexity.
We have an interest rate environment right now that benefits anyone building anything just about anywhere in our country, the lowest interest rates in 40 years. That is about as big as an incentive as one could possibly have for undertaking new construction projects. I certainly do not believe we need to put the taxpayers on the hook in order to provide even more incentive.
We are reaching out trying to protect the taxpayers, trying to do the right thing, I think trying to make this bill better and trying to set a good precedent. Again, I thank Ron Wyden, the Senator from Oregon, for his work. We have bipartisan support for this amendment, three Republican and three Democrat cosponsors. As we move toward a vote, I think we will see bipartisan support for the amendment.
Again, I thank the chairman of the committee for being thoughtful enough to work with us so we could get a consent agreement to bring this amendment up today, to have a fair and thoughtful debate, and to be able to have a straight up-or-down vote on the amendment at the conclusion of the debate. I reserve the remainder of our time.
I yield the floor.
Mr. President, I ask if the Senator from Oregon would yield 2 minutes to the distinguished Senator from Arizona.
Mr. President, I thank the Senator from Arizona for his support for our amendment. I will pick up a little bit where he left off talking about the issue of subsidies across a range of areas.
The distinguished chairman of the committee spoke earlier about the clean coal subsidy, the $2 billion in clean coal subsidy. He suggested that supporters of this amendment also supported that subsidy.
I just want to be clear. I do not support $2 billion for clean coal. I have, in my service in the House of Representatives, opposed the clean coal technology program. In addition to that, I oppose the fossil fuel research and development fund that is in this bill because they effectively provide a subsidy for research and development in the areas of fossil fuel, areas where private companies operate in a very profitable and successful way.
It is not to hold anything against those fossil fuel firms or those coal firms, but it is to stand up for some of the concerns expressed by the Senator from Arizona that we should try to be as consistent as possible in striking these unnecessary subsidies.
The suggestion was made earlier on the floor--in fact, the statement was made specifically--that this loan guarantee program is ``not a subsidy.'' I reject that out of hand. If this was not a subsidy, then it would convey no benefit to those who sought the loan guarantee. And if there were no benefit, then people should have no objection to removing it from the bill. But, of course, there is a lot of objection to removing this from the bill because there is a big benefit to be gained by having a federally subsidized loan guarantee for the construction of new nuclear plants.
It was also suggested that perhaps this is an attack on nuclear power. Let me close by reemphasizing that is simply not the case. I support the Price-Anderson provisions in the bill. I supported the effort to establish a long-term storage facility for nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain that could be operated for the long-term, safely for our utilities and energy industries.
In an effort to suggest this is an attack on nuclear power, the big guns have also been rolled out: there's been a suggestion that Alan Greenspan, of all people, might somehow harbor some support for this loan guarantee program. Let me say, clearly, like Alan Greenspan, I am a proponent and supporter of the concept of using nuclear power to help meet our energy needs, but I do not believe, for a moment, that means Alan Greenspan is a supporter of federally guaranteed loans to private industry. And if someone can produce testimony from Alan Greenspan supporting a Federal loan guarantee program for private industry to build nuclear powerplants, I will quite literally eat my hat. I simply do not believe that to be the case.
I join with the Senator from Oregon in support of this amendment to strike one provision from this very large Energy bill; and that will protect taxpayers by preventing them from being exposed to $14 or $16 billion in loan guarantees to private industry. I do not think we need it.
I look forward to a vote on this amendment. I certainly ask my colleagues to support the amendment.
I yield the floor.