Mr. President, I appreciate the distinguished majority whip. I voted with him last week on the interchange fees on debit cards. I thought it was a good amendment. But I have to take issue. Don't generically accuse those of us in this body…
Mr. President, I appreciate the distinguished majority whip. I voted with him last week on the interchange fees on debit cards. I thought it was a good amendment. But I have to take issue. Don't generically accuse those of us in this body of stonewalling a bill or more or less being interested in looking out for Wall Street or anybody else.
A little history lesson is due. First, what brought us into this recession was the subprime market, which the distinguished Senator mentioned, and the housing market. It happened because Members of this body and the body down the way, 13 years ago, began to direct Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to include in their portfolios a portion of affordable housing loans which were the words for what became subprime loans.
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae created the market that allowed Wall Street to go find capital and collect that capital, put a high premium on the capital, high interest rate, maybe 200 basis points over the going rate, but then make it a higher credit risk to lenders because that is the way credit works. What happened is, those loans became popular, and because of a government-sponsored entity that began the consumption of those loans, they proliferated. Those securities were sold around the world. When they collapsed, and we went all through that, it was a terrible collapse. But the root of this problem is that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were under the direction of the Congress as to what they should do in terms of the securities they owned. I am saying the Congress of the United States, not pointing fingers at any particular party.
With that being true--and I don't think anybody can dispute it--we have a financial reform bill before us that exempts Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from reform. That doesn't make any sense. If you listen to the arguments to why they weren't there, it is because it was too hard.
These are hard times. Americans are having hard times. It is time we did the hard things. It is time we not try and politically label Members as friends of Wall Street or friends of Main Street. We are all Americans. It is our economy. It is not just part of the economy. I take issue with the labeling that takes place sometimes. Let's talk about the facts that are there, one way or another. Let's let the facts determine what we do.
I didn't vote for cloture because I don't think it is right to leave Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae outside the equation and incorporate every other business on Main Street and on Wall Street to the extent we have. It is right for us to take some of the blame in the Congress. A lot of this wouldn't have happened had we not directed the government- sponsored entities with which we had influence, and the implied full faith and credit of the taxpayers would be the consumers that would create the liquidity for subprime loans.
My only statement to the majority whip is this: I understand facts. The facts are that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae started this. They are exempt from this piece of legislation. I, for one, take issue with that. We cannot reform and address the concerns that happened if we don't address the root of the problem.
I yield the floor.
I am happy to.
Will the Senator yield?
I appreciate his comment. That was my point. When I was listening to the Senator's speech, I got a little irritated. Then I realized I have probably done the same thing before too. I leaped over some facts that belong in the debate. The fact that the Congress directed Freddie and Fannie to own a percentage of their portfolio in subprime loans was the source of the capital that bought the first securities that created the subprime securities. I do not argue that there are not good things in this bill.
In fact, when the Senator was referring to the liar loans, it was the Isakson-Landrieu amendment that we
successfully added to this bill that defined that a qualified loan is to be exempt from risk potential because it requires income verification, requires an employer statement that the employee is hired, and it requires an income ratio that is sufficient to retire debt that is borrowed. I agree with the Senator.
My point was that when all of us make these remarks of what bills are and they are not, we ought to include all of the facts that are in there, not just a select few. I appreciate the Senator's comments. I was proud to be a part of his amendment.
The Senator and I might differ on points, but I defer to the Senator. I wish I had the control to control votes, but I don't. There were two on his side and two on ours. There are people with higher pay grades who were responsible for that. I wanted to make the point about what is, to me, a serious issue with regard to the bill and something that should be considered in the debate.
Mr. President, will the Senator yield for one comment?
First of all, my comments were directed specifically to the speech of the Senator from Illinois.
They were not a criticism of the chairman, first of all. I think the ranking member would certainly agree with that.
Second of all, there is some good news that was received today, thanks to the Senator's help, because I could not have done it if it were not for him. We had the tax credit we extended and ultimately passed, which terminated April 30. As to the numbers from the most recent month: the average sales price in the 20 top markets in America, for the first time in 36 months, went up by six-tenths of 1 percent. So the distinguished chairman deserves a lot of credit for that contribution as well.
I was just making sure there was a voice over here that reminded everybody of what got us in this to begin with in the context of the speech of the Senator from Illinois. It was never a criticism of the chairman of the committee.
Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order for the quorum call be rescinded.
Mr. President, I understand the body may, in a little bit, take up the Whitehouse amendment, and out of an abundance of caution, to be sure my statement is in the Record, I want to speak to that amendment for a second.
I have the greatest respect for the Senator from Rhode Island, Mr. Whitehouse, and all of his work. But the amendment he has proposed basically says that the usury rate to apply to any loan shall be the usury rate in the State, which will take us back to a period of time post 1982 or 1983, when interest rates went to 16 and three-quarters percent. And because usury rates in the United States were 8, 9, or 10 percent in most of the States, there was no money. Usury rates are the maximum ceiling that a loan can do.
Now we have South Dakota and Delaware where there are no usury rates. Most banks are chartered there and, therefore, interest rates on loans are negotiable and competitive. There are a lot of people in public life who think: Well, if you put a ceiling on interest rates, you are guaranteeing the consumer that they are not going to pay a high rate. What you are usually guaranteeing the consumer is, they are going to pay a fixed rate, which is whatever the government says is the usury rate. Floors set by government become ceilings, and ceilings by government become rates.
So I want to caution the body, in considering the Whitehouse amendment, to be very careful what you ask for. Because what you will do is you will put an end to credit in the housing business and in many other types of instruments in the United States, and you will have 50 different usury regimens in 50 different States. You will create a fixed-rate environment by the government, not by competition. What effectively happens is a rise in the cost of credit, a rise in the cost to the consumer, and in the end what I am sure is intended to be beneficial to the consumer will, in fact, cost the consumer more money and be disastrous to the expansion of credit in a time where there is very little credit as it is.
I would respectfully ask the body to consider what we went through in the mid-1980s and early 1980s with interest rates. We hope they will not go up again, but if they do, credit is more important than no credit at all, and usury rates can assure you have no credit at all and end up having the unintended consequence of having a negative impact on the economy.
I would oppose the Whitehouse amendment, should it come up tonight, and I hope the Members of the body will consider the history lesson from the early 1980s.
Mr. President, I yield back and suggest the absence of a quorum.