Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, first let me congratulate the gentleman from Kentucky (Chairman Rogers) on the first homeland security bill and congratulate him on a job well done and also add my…
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, first let me congratulate the gentleman from Kentucky (Chairman Rogers) on the first homeland security bill and congratulate him on a job well done and also add my thanks to the staff, both minority and majority, for their hard work in putting this bill together. We really do appreciate their efforts.
Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the fiscal year 2004 Homeland Security appropriations bill. But I must say that in many ways I think it is premature for this bill to be the first appropriations measure brought to the floor. The Department is in serious disarray, and the committee received very little support from the Department in putting together this bill and report. In fact, many of the agencies transferred to the Department were prevented by the Department from providing responsive information to the subcommittee.
Hearings could not even be arranged for four of the largest and most important of the Department's 11 major agencies. Those four agencies constitutes $9 billion, or 31 percent, of the Department's total budget. And I must say that that is an additional reason for thanking the staff, both minority and majority of this committee, for putting a bill together with the lack of information coming from the Department.
In some ways the current state of the Department of Homeland Security reminds me of the situation we faced 1 year ago and still face today with TSA. The management failures of TSA are well known, and I fear that the Department of Homeland Security is going down the same path. The Department so far has failed to develop a useful road map of its security goals for the Nation. If anyone at the Department has a strategy for basic objectives, such as securing the northern border, tracking all vessels entering American waters, or ensuring that airline cargo is effectively screened, no one has been willing to share that information with us. I find that disturbing.
If the Department will not define its goals, it is up to the Congress to do them. This bill provides $29.4 billion in discretionary budget authority for the Department of Homeland Security. This is only $536 million, or 1.8 percent, above fiscal 2003 funding. The gentleman from Kentucky (Chairman Rogers) has managed to fill some of the most glaring funding gaps contained in President Bush's 2004 budget, specifically funding for first responder programs contained in this bill. However, the tightness in the budget resolution restricts this bill from doing more to protect our borders, secure our ports and other critical infrastructure. This does not serve our Nation well.
In conclusion, while I support the bill overall, I have many concerns with the current abilities, or rather inabilities of the Department of Homeland Security to adequately address obvious homeland security gaps.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Obey), the distinguished ranking member of the committee.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Price).
(Mr. PRICE of North Carolina asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from New York (Mr. Serrano), a member of our subcommittee.
How much time is remaining on both sides, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Rhode Island (Mr. Langevin).
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, one of the disappointments I had in this rule was it did not waive a point of order on what I thought was a very reasonable limitation on the development of CAPPS2. The gentleman from Kentucky graciously accepted that amendment in committee. I would hope that the folks who are objecting would not raise a point of order when we get to that in the regular bill.
The provision is a moderate attempt to make sure that this very, very large system of compiling information on the American public receives the closest of scrutiny and the closest of examination by GAO and others before it is implemented.
Our amendment left in place the money for the program, left in place the capacity of the Department to proceed with work on how they want to put the program together, but requires it be scrutinized by GAO and the Academy of Science to look at the privacy issues and also to look at its effectiveness. It has the potential to be the largest intrusion of the American government into the private lives of American people that has ever occurred. It also, on the other hand, has the ability to be a system that totally complicates our screening process if it is not done well. Rather than simplify, it may make our whole screening process more cumbersome and more costly and less effective.
If a point of order is raised, the only alternative we will have is to seek a pure limitation without the language. I would hope the House would adopt such a limitation, if that is the situation we find ourselves in, but I much prefer we preserve the language which is for new activity of the Department, one not specifically authorized with guidelines by Congress. It is a new activity that the Department is pursuing and we simply want to put some regulations in place as they move forward to make sure this whole new large complicated program is put in place in a fashion that would work.
I might remind people this is an agency that has had trouble figuring out whether their own workforce has had criminal involvement in the past. They are struggling to make sure that their personnel do not have criminal backgrounds. They have not succeeded doing that yet. So we should be a little cautious before we give them a blank check to move forward with a huge new complicated screening process of the American public.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
How much time do I have left, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Lowey).
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
In relationship to our latest colloquy, I understand the concern of people over the situation in New York. They clearly have unusual problems. Would the chairman agree with me that we do not know precisely how the agency sets criteria for the balance of funds in this particular discretionary program?
I yield to the gentleman from Kentucky.
Mr. Chairman, we have a little trouble getting a precise understanding of what criteria are used.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Turner).
Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Hoyer), a distinguished member of the Committee on Appropriations.
(Mr. HOYER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee) and congratulate the gentlewoman on Rice's victory in the NCAA baseball tournament last night.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. Chairman, I would join the chairman in opposing the amendment. The committee and the chairman have been very tough task masters of TSA when it comes to the number of screeners. We have been urging them for a long time to use more part-time people and to make more efficient use of their personnel. On the other hand, if we get too harsh, there may be imbalance around the country in terms of where there are vacancies and where there are an overabundance. So if we get too tough, we can be very counterproductive.
I agree with the chairman that first responder money is important, but the committee has been very disciplined in dealing with TSA, and I would join the chairman in opposing this additional cut.
Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the requisite number of words, and I rise in opposition to the amendment.
I would like to ask the gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. Rogers) a question.
I yield to the gentleman from Kentucky.
Mr. Chairman, did I just hear correctly a little while ago that the Secretary's request of our committee for the high-threat urban grant was zero?
And our committee has recommended what?
Five hundred million. And this goes to a limited number of communities in the country?
Which criteria that many of us have trouble understanding yet. The balance of the money flows by formula to the States, including the States that are eligible for this additional $500 million?
Reclaiming my time, for those of us who come from the heartland of the country, we are having discussion over how much money should go to ports. We have allocated a significant amount, and others would like to allocate more. My assumption is most of that goes along the coast.
No. We do have a river one but fairly small. So I think it would be fair to say we made a special effort to try to allocate more money to ports, that that will go to a limited part of the country.
But we find that when we raise threat levels in this country, the law enforcement and local responders are expected to respond throughout the country and they have the same problem over time, training, teaching people how to use new equipment, wondering what it means, increasing pressure on local law enforcement. What I hear from all of them is that their expenditures exceed whatever revenue they are getting from the Federal Government. I expect the gentleman hears the same thing.
And this amendment, as I understand it, would take some of this little money that we distribute throughout the country and say we are going to cut that from everyone. Where they are working, trying to coordinate expenditures to make most efficient use of it, take it from that and give them to a few areas where we have already increased the administration's budget by $500 million; am I right?
Reclaiming my time, and this is money that local responders can use for buying new equipment in a coordinated fashion, in a State plan or for training to have them become equipped to meet the threats that may occur in this country?
Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for his comments, and I think he has given good advice to the body.
Mr. Chairman, I do.
It is sort of strange. Would the gentleman from Florida yield?
In discussion of his point of order, we are trying to figure out how----
Okay. Let me see if I figure out how we do this, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I think I understand what the gentleman from Florida is saying is that he is raising a point of order against this provision because it is legislation on an appropriation bill. However, he is also telling me that the authorizing committee is meeting tomorrow and it is their intent to adopt provisions that are similar in substance to what is contained in
the language of the appropriations bill, which will then be amended in another bill.
The gentleman from Minnesota would observe that, as he has read what is intended to be offered tomorrow, that in many ways it is similar and if that bill were before us we would not be subject to a point of order. However, the gentleman from Minnesota has also observed that some of the enforcement techniques within the proposed language are significantly weaker.
I would observe that the proposal that the committee will be considering tomorrow leaves the responsibility for reviewing CAPPS2 proposal internally in the Department while the language in question, which is subject to a point of order now, gives that responsibility to the GAO; and I would hope the gentleman from Florida would consider such language because frankly one of my concerns is the Department may not be equipped to make a good judgment.
We, frankly, have watched an agency that has had a problem trying to figure out which of their own employees do or do not have criminal backgrounds, and we think it might be a significant advantage to have the GAO look at their proposed plans before they are implemented rather than waiting until a year after deployment and development of these plans to have a GAO study.
So I would urge the gentleman from Florida, as he ponders whether he should continue to press this point of order, that they might well consider expanding at an earlier stage the review of GAO of the pending plans of the agency.
Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I was trying to listen to the gentleman from Colorado as he explained his amendment. I have read the amendment several times and I, frankly, have to admit I do not understand it.
I yield to the gentleman from Colorado.
Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time, we now have a new department. It could not have existed in 1996.
So it applied to the INS, the existing law?
Would it now apply to all parts of the Department of Homeland Security, so it would also apply to TSA?
But does it expand who the law applies to?
Are there new and different grants that could be restricted?
I am trying to understand, again, Mr. Chairman. Can the gentleman tell me who the original law applied to, in what form?
Yes.
But, Mr. Chairman, what I am trying to get at, I guess, is my understanding that you are saying that the old law applied to the INS; this law now applies to the Department of Homeland Security, which is 22 agencies rather than one agency.
So it would be a significant expansion in the scope of what the current law is?
I thank the gentleman.
Point of Order
Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman will yield, I am having trouble following what this amendment does or does not do. It may be of significant relevance to some people.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order.
Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word.
I want to ask the gentleman a question. What cities would this apply to?
I yield to the gentleman from Colorado.
Houston. And do I understand correctly, because I have tried to read this language. I am sorry, there was so much noise I could not clearly hear what the gentleman was saying.
Under old law, under the INS, there were certain restrictions that we passed that in some fashion applied to the transfer of funds from the INS if a city did certain things; is that what it states?
Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time, as I read this amendment, this says, none of the funds can be used to provide assistance to any State or local government, entity, or official that does certain things. I do not quite understand the end of this, what they are or are not doing.
My assumption is that now this would apply to FEMA funds, emergency funds; it would apply to airports that are receiving funds under the Transportation Security Act.
Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time, I am sorry, I am having trouble again. But as I read this, none of the funds made available in this act may be used to provide assistance to any State or local government or official that restricts any government entity or official from sending or receiving funds, and I am not sure what agency the gentleman is referring to. But ``none of the funds that are used to provide assistance'' would now include all of the funds flowing to airports from the TSA; and it would apply to FEMA funds, I would assume. It would apply to all of the first responder funds that are in this bill. I would assume it would apply to all the port funds that are in this bill.
I yield to the gentleman from Colorado.
Mr. Chairman, I will let someone else maybe try and figure it out. I remain confused. It just seems to go farther to me than what the gentleman has indicated.