Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment. Mr. Chairman, this is an issue that came up when our committee traveled to the border and had discussions with the Border Patrol. And what you are talking about here is striking language…
Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, this is an issue that came up when our committee traveled to the border and had discussions with the Border Patrol. And what you are talking about here is striking language that gives some ability for comparing the expenditure of costs on one piece of intelligence equipment versus the other. And what the gentleman didn't tell you is that of all the assets on the border, this is the most expensive, $10 million, $8 to $10 million per unmanned vehicle. The other assets that are on the border, which everybody agreed was much more effective, is the new radar system, which costs about $700,000, that are portable.
We have others. We have balloons. We have helicopters. We have as many assets looking at the border as there are in Iraq. And what the language in the bill says is that before you go out and just buy more Predators at 8 million bucks, there is already $50 million in the account and we want to know before you spend that whether it is cost- effective compared to other issues that you have to do.
You have on the border not only the Customs and Border Patrol, and I would submit that the arrests were not made by that unmanned vehicle, and I don't think that was the only system they used to discover that. It was just one. It happened to be a very, very expensive one. The radar systems are the most effective. The most effective. And you have responding to that Customs and Border Patrol that are in aircraft, in different kinds of helicopters, including Black Hawk helicopters, you have all-terrain vehicles, you have Border Patrol on horseback, you have Border Patrol with SUVs, with four-wheel-drive vehicles. You have all kinds of response mechanisms and all kinds of detection mechanisms.
But to suggest that we shouldn't even ask the question of whether an $8 million expense is more cost-effective than another kind of assets, I think, is just ridiculous.
And, frankly, that is one thing the committee found out, that there isn't all the money you always want to spend on everything here. There have got to be some priorities. And if you have made the priority that of the Customs and Border Patrol, this is not what they would spend it on.
So I think the amendment and the language in the bill is particularly appropriate. It doesn't prohibit the expenditures. It just says before you come back and spend up to another $8 billion, compare this to what other assets you can buy, and you make the suggestion to us as to what is the best expenditure of limited public funds.
Will the gentleman yield?
First of all, the Predator has to be monitored. There is manpower on the Predator. And as I recall, there are three people that it takes to fly it.
But that's not the issue of this, because you would have money to buy Predators. All it says is that the same people that operate them, Customs and Border Patrol, that this isn't a high priority for them. That is all it says.
Mr. Chairman, the language is that the very people that are operating these vehicles, the Customs and Border Patrol, certify that these are the higher priority and the more cost effective than other items included in the Air and Marine Strategic Recapitalization and Modernization plan. It puts the burden on them. If this is what they think is the most cost effective, fine. It doesn't block it; it just says do that analysis.
I am really just surprised, because I sat here all these days and just heard riling after riling, people getting up on the other side talking about money, and we need to be very conscientious about how we spend money. There is language in there that says, Customs and Border Patrol, you certify that this is a high priority for you and it's cost effective. What's wrong with that? Why do you want to strike that language? It doesn't make any sense at all.
Because as the gentleman knows, this is an almost $10 million per cost item. And you know what? The one we had crashed, and the other one we have is about to be delivered. And there is $50 million in the account. If they want to come back and use that $50 million to buy more of them, that's what we are asking. You tell us what is the most cost-effective use. Frankly, and I wish you were there, the new equipment that is coming out, this technology on radar, for 100 miles can detect when even rabbits are crossing the border. It's very cost effective. The Border Patrol is very excited about it. They would like to have more, but they can't because they're spending money like this.
So, with all due respect, these are professionals that are on the job every single day, you want to let them tell you what they think is the most effective tool to do their job. That is all this language does. I don't know why you would oppose that.
Don't read in this language what isn't there. That's not what it is about.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for yielding.
I wasn't even going to speak on this issue, but I have to concur with my Chair and ranking member, and I'll tell you why, Mr. Bilbray. The Deepwater project, the first Deepwater vessel is being delivered to Alameda, California. As you know, the Alameda office is in charge of the entire ocean from California to the Indian Ocean, half the world. The other half is monitored by this side. If you think that that operation isn't about national security with the vessels that are in the entire Pacific and with the drugs that are being run up through the ocean from South America, I don't think we can afford to take the newest vessel which is going through all its trials and sea trials and is going to be stationed in our own State and cut funding that's going to affect that. I hear you. I think we need to do something about identification, but I frankly think that if you're thinking that REAL ID is going to solve that identification problem, all IDs tell you is that you are who you are. There is no national ID. There is no citizenship ID. There's nobody in this room that has a card in their wallet that shows that they're an American citizen. You may have a driver's license. You don't have to be an American citizen to have a driver's license. You may have a Social Security card. You don't have to be an American citizen to have a Social Security card. There is no card. You may have a passport. Very few Americans have them, but those who have them, that shows that you are an American citizen.
The issue is whether these fake IDs which the States are working with can be made more secure, and I think that's important to do, but I don't think that's going to answer your national ID issue. It's not.
Frankly, this is a debate worth having. We are not having it here, we are not having it on your amendment, we are not having it tonight because I think the real debate is: Is this the time in the development of our country where we really ought to form an ID? I have been opposed to it. If you look at the politics, the left and the right have been very much opposed to having a national ID program. But if you are going to do it, it is going to need to make much more sense than 58, our States plus our territories, all having different measurements and not having any one way to tell if it is a citizenship issue which you want to talk about, which is what this Border Patrol and Customs is all about. This is not the way to do it, and certainly not cutting money from a budget that has already been whacked and oversighted and conditioned more than any other budget item than in this bill.
Will the gentleman yield?
It is very interesting. I am from California, and I sit on the committee and I have never heard from the Governor about your amendment, nor anyone else in California. I support the chairman and the ranking member's opposition.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for yielding.
I rise as one of the cochairs of the Travel and Tourism Caucus, and I rise because I think you are trying to fix something here that isn't broken.
We have not had problems with the Visa Waiver Program. In fact, it has worked very well. And the reason you get qualified as a country for the Visa Waiver Program is because the visitors from that country, all who have passports, those passports all are screened and have to pass the screening before they get on an airplane. And so if there is such a traveler that is on the ``no fly'' list, they would be selected out at that point.
The reason these countries have qualified is because they haven't had people visiting our country who have skipped, who have stayed on, who have violated. The visa is time certain. These are frequent travelers; they are from the countries that are our allies, most of whom are members of NATO or other security forces. I think it is a very bad way to go. One is it's going to alienate the travel and tourism industry in the United States that relies a lot on foreign travelers; they spend a lot of money in this country. And, frankly, right now visiting America is a bargain. It is one of the best vacation packages you can buy compared to costs in Europe and so on. And what you do by cutting these funds, you would prohibit funds from this act from carrying out the Visa Waiver Program.
Now, within that program is also the ability of DHS sharing information with the State Department, maintaining records of these visa-waiver applications. Remember, you have to apply for that. You would prohibit the administering of programs which air carriers use relating to verifying travelers as qualified, visa-waiver residents.
So what you are going to do is you are not going to stop the program. You are just going to stop the sharing of inside information. And I think it's a fear that hasn't been demonstrated as a problem. Therefore, nothing is broken that needs fixing. There isn't support for this program among the travel and tourism industry, and particularly the air carriers. And I think the fact that all these visitors have to have a passport and those passports have to meet our standards, that these Visa Waiver Program visitors are very well protected.
Mr. Chairman, none of the facts stated by the gentleman have anything to do with the amendment. The amendment cuts the ability for us to manage a program which is working very well. Every one of these travelers has to get a passport; those passports have to meet our standards. They have to go through the screening at airports. If they are on a ``no fly'' list, they won't be allowed on an airplane. This is not the way to try to prevent good visitors to this country who are allies of the United States.
And, frankly, adopting this amendment is not only going to create an incredible bureaucracy for us; it is going to create an alienation among countries that we get along with very well and have allowed a visa waiver. Without it, every one of these would have to flood a foreign council. And you would have frequent travelers unable to get to the United States and be a good tourist and good visitors of our country and good friends.
I don't think in nation building that this is the way that you want to attack the problem. So I ask for a ``no'' vote on this amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment, and must say it has been very interesting tonight. There has been a lot of discussion about fences and very little discussion about Homeland Security which is what this budget is all about.
It is interesting, in traveling the border and talking to the Border Patrol, there was never, never a request for this. What you are doing, very interesting in this amendment, you say ``none of the funds made available in this act for customs and border protection fencing, infrastructure, and technology may be used for anything but at least two layers of reinforced fencing and roads.''
No technology, no infrastructure, just got to build two fences. Wait a minute. This committee went to a lot of effort to find out how to prioritize spending. What we heard from the experts is follow risk management principles.
And the question was asked in committee: Where is the risk on our border? Where have we seen terrorism? And guess what the head of the Border Patrol said, the Customs and Border Patrol Commissioner said, when asked about how many terrorists we have apprehended or found on the Mexico-U.S. border? The answer was zero. How much material have you apprehended on that border? The answer was zero.
When asked about the northern border the answer was yes, we have apprehended terrorists coming across that border, and we have apprehended material coming across that border.
So based on risk management, if this is about terrorism, the fence is not an issue. I think this fence discussion here has created fence bulimia. That is all we can talk about, and it is only one fence, and now you want to build it double when the customs people don't even ask for that.
We are sitting here as fence managers here in Washington and have nothing to do with trying to patrol that border. This is cutting off funds for technology and infrastructure. If there is anything that is needed along that border, it is infrastructure. This is like building a huge levee on one side of the river and not taking care of anything on the other side.
I will tell you, if you are going to have security, you are going to have to have a much more comprehensive approach. Mexico is our important ally. It is our neighbor. It is our leading trade partner with the State of California which the gentleman is from. It has the busiest border between California and Mexico. More people cross that border every day and more legitimate commerce cross that border than any other place in the world.
And we are doing that with existing resources. Guess what, they are working because the committee has put in some very good detection systems using smart cards and other things.
I think this amendment does absolutely the opposite of what you want to do. This doesn't secure the border, this takes money away from technology and infrastructure development. Without a problem, you don't need to fix it.
If you want to build a fence where the terrorists are coming, then build that fence across the Canadian border.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, this gold-plated fence costs $3 million a mile. To do that takes money away from technology and infrastructure. It takes money from effective border control. Effective control is where they detect and apprehend. That is what they want the money spent on, being able to detect and apprehend. This takes money away from doing effective border security. I oppose the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.