Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to the motion to instruct conferees offered by Mr. Flake, and I yield myself such time as I may consume. This motion directs the transportation reauthorization conferees to agree to a provision contained…
Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to the motion to instruct conferees offered by Mr. Flake, and I yield myself such time as I may consume.
This motion directs the transportation reauthorization conferees to agree to a provision contained in the Senate bill increasing the guaranteed minimum percentage rate of return that each State receives in Federal aid highway formula funding from 92 percent to 95 percent of payments in the highway trust fund collected through gas tax contributions in that State.
This is the same old donor/donee argument that we've been having for years, but it is becoming even more ridiculous now that all States are, in effect, donee States. Frankly, I'm not quite sure what the realistic impact of a 95 percent minimum guarantee would be at this point.
For several years, general fund revenue has been filling the gap between what the highway trust fund can support and current funding levels, so now every State gets back more from the program than the amount of gas taxes collected in that State. In effect, every State is a donee State. In fact, under SAFETEA-LU, under the current formula which guarantees 92 percent, Mr. Flake mentioned Texas. Texas gets back $1.03 for every dollar it puts in. California, $1.19 for every dollar it puts in. There is no State that gets back less than a dollar for a dollar. So increasing the guarantee from 92 to 95 percent, frankly, I don't understand the point of it.
The Senate bill continues to fund the program through nongas tax- related revenue. Unless my colleagues are proposing to raise the gas tax, and I don't think they are, this motion is, frankly, meaningless.
But the idea behind the motion is wrong in any event. It is highly irresponsible to pick out and insist upon one factor that affects the overall funding distribution to the States without a complete picture of how the programs will be funded and apportioned. The Senate did raise the minimum percentage to 95 percent, but within an overall framework that required that each State get the same percentage of funds it got in the last year of SAFETEA-LU. In the Senate bill, all States were held harmless.
The motion to instruct does not insist on adopting the Senate's funding structure. It cherry-picks one factor to benefit certain States at the expense of others. I would caution against anyone voting for something that affects how much transportation funding will go to your State without knowing what the ultimate impact will be.
We know that House Republicans would like a different formula than what's in the Senate bill since they took a different approach in H.R. 7. Depending on how the final bill is structured and what the ultimate funding levels are for the program, raising the minimum to 95 percent could conceivably result in steep cuts to certain States.
In TEA 21 and SAFETEA-LU, the last two transportation bills we had, we opposed raising the minimum percentage, but ultimately we could live with it because the overall funding levels were increased and States were held harmless; and even though some States got a lower percentage of the funding than they would have gotten without increasing the minimum guarantee, they got more money because the pie was bigger. Each State got an increase in funding, just not as big an increase as some others. Increased funding is highly unlikely in this environment, so this type of motion, although probably meaningless in the long run because every State gets more than 100 percent right now, is potentially dangerous.
I'm sure that Mr. Flake and others will say it is the principle of the matter, that those who contribute to the program deserve to benefit from it at the same level. But if that is the principle, why then do they just look at the gas tax? If you truly believe in the principle of user pays, why shouldn't that same theory apply to all revenue that goes into the program? And why apply it just to the highway program?
For example, my State of New York contributes much more to the Federal Government every year than it receives back in Federal expenditures. We have a huge balance of deficit with the Federal Government, and yet the one area where we get more back is the gasoline tax, and so that should be abolished?
This is not about equity. This is about gaming the system by applying this principle to one aspect of one program to benefit certain States at the expense of others. And if you follow the logic through, what these donor arguments are really saying is that each State should get a dollar back for every dollar it puts into the Federal system. If so, why do we have a Federal Government at all? I'm sure some of my colleagues would be happy to have no Federal role in transportation and devolve it completely to the States, but that is not yet the policy of the United States Congress, and I would caution my colleagues about going too far down that road.
The fair thing to do is to spend Federal funds where they are needed. And by the way, one of things that the current formula has done is to say that if a State invests a lot of its own money in efficiency--New York, for example, has a spent billions of dollars of its own money building up a mass transit system. Because of that, we are very energy efficient. We use far less gasoline per capita than other States because we have a mass transit system. That helps the country. It reduces the amount of petroleum that we have to import. And for that, a State that does that should be punished by getting a smaller percentage of highway funds because it invested in mass transit? That doesn't make sense. We should be encouraging States to invest in energy efficiency.
The fair thing to do is to spend Federal funds where they're needed. We have a national transportation system that benefits everybody. These kinds of debates are illogical and divisive, especially when it has no practical impact at all because every State is now a donee State. Our time would be better spent working together to draft a bill that benefits all States. If the purpose of this bill is to create jobs and spur economic growth, we should ensure that all States benefit.
And by the way, we have, this year, a House bill that didn't go anywhere. The Senate passed a real transportation bill. The House only passed a 90-day extension because the Republicans couldn't agree among themselves on a bill. But the bill that they have and they're trying to use as the basis of a conference committee--which they cannot do legally--air-drops into the conference committee a lot of poison pills that will make sure that no comprehensive bill is adopted. It air-drops into the conference committee a provision that says that hazmat provisions should not apply to certain transportation workers. It air- drops into the bill a completely unrelated provision about the XL pipeline that has nothing to do with the transportation bill.
If we care about employment, we should pass the Senate bill and we shouldn't get involved in side debates over provisions that would be unfair if they could be implemented, like this one, but in any event, cannot be implemented; because to say that every State should get back at least as much as it puts in when every State, in fact, is getting back more than it puts in has no practical impact. And I don't understand why we are wasting our time, frankly, debating a provision and motion to instruct conferees on something that may cause some controversy but really will have no practical impact, will affect no dollars, will direct no dollars to any State or away from any other State at all.
We should be debating how to finance the overall bill. We should be debating how to get more funding for highways, for mass transit, how to get our construction workers back to work in this construction season to reduce the unemployment rate in this country. That is what we should be acting on instead of wasting our time debating entirely theoretical questions that have no practical import whatsoever and that are philosophically wrong.
I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume at the moment.
Mr. Speaker, again, there is no donee State. Arizona, over the last 4 years or 5 years, got $1.07 for every dollar they put in. There is no such thing as a donee State anymore.
Now, it is true, as Mr. Flake says, that that is because we are supplementing the gasoline tax with general funds to maintain the highway program, to maintain the mass transit program. He says that it better not continue. Well, we have only several choices:
Number one, we can raise the gasoline tax. I might support that. I think most Members of this House probably wouldn't. I'm sure Mr. Flake wouldn't support raising the gasoline tax.
Two, we can fund our transportation system at a totally inadequate level and watch that system deteriorate and watch our country become less competitive with other countries, which is what we're doing now.
Three--and the fact is that we funded the last bill at $286 billion, SAFETEA-LU. When the Secretary of Transportation under President Bush said that we needed at least $375 billion for that time period just to keep the system at a system of reasonable repair and reasonable efficiency, never mind major new construction. But we did that because President Bush said no raising the highway taxes and no funding from the general fund, and no use of other revenues.
If we keep doing that, if we try to maintain the system only on the gasoline tax and don't raise the gasoline tax, then that's a declining revenue base. It's declining for two reasons: one, because of inflation, everything costs more and the same amount of money buys less. And, number two, we're becoming more energy efficient. We want to become more energy efficient; we want to use less gasoline. And since the gasoline tax is a per-gallon tax, not a percentage, if you use less gasoline, there's less revenue. So you're going to have less revenue every year, and inflation is not going to be negative--it's going to be something--how do you maintain your system? You don't. So we either have to raise the gasoline tax, or we have to bring in some other source of revenue or else watch the entire transportation system of this country deteriorate and eventually collapse.
So we cannot stop supplementing the gasoline tax for transportation maintenance unless we raise the gasoline tax. Those are our choices: raise the tax or bring in other revenues, as we have been doing on an ad hoc basis for the last couple of years. We can't stop doing that without raising the gasoline tax or seeing the slow decline and eventual collapse of our transportation system. So we're not going to do that--I hope we're not going to do that. If we don't do that, this motion to instruct is completely meaningless because there's going to be no such thing as a donee State--as a donor State, every State gets more than it puts in.
And by the way, let's talk about what it means to put in. The question is how much gasoline taxes are collected in one State and how much is spent on transportation in that State. There is no principle of equity that says they should match. There is no principle of equity which says that you should get at least as much, or even 95 cents, or any particular percentage of the amount of gasoline taxes collected in your State, because there are a lot of other factors.
It may be that some States, because they are bigger, perhaps, need more money spent on highways because there's more distances. It may be that some States have invested a lot of money in mass transit and therefore are more energy efficient and therefore generate less gasoline tax revenue, but that helps the country. They shouldn't be penalized for that.
There are a lot of different factors that go into this. And to simply say each State should get back the amount that was collected in a gasoline tax is wrong, especially when you consider that there are plenty of--why should this one account be the only one? As I said, New York State annually says--and I'm quoting New York because I happen to know the figure because it's my State--New York State annually sends to the Federal Government between $14 billion and $18 billion more in taxes of all kinds than is spent in New York.
Senator Moynihan used to put out that report every year. Is that a terrible thing? Well, some people think it is, it's unfair--New York ought to pay less taxes, other States ought to pay more taxes. But the fact is we have a Federal Union. Taxes ought to be raised where they can be raised most equitably and efficiently and the spending ought to be done where the spending is necessary. That's what one country means. That's why we're one country and Europe isn't.
So the motion to instruct is wrong theoretically. It does not contribute to equity. And it is totally irrelevant for the foreseeable future because there is no State that would be affected by this in any way as long as the gasoline tax is not supporting the entire transportation system, which it is not now or in the foreseeable future.
I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, the argument sounds reasonable, and I have no doubt it's going to pass because there are a lot more people here from so-called donor States than from donee States, and people are going to vote purely on that basis, many of them are. Many people are. But it's not equitable. If it were equitable, why don't we apply the same principle to other things? Why don't we say that the taxes that some States pay for the agriculture program should be reduced because, after all, not all States get the same amount of money in the wheat subsidy. Some States get a lot more back for agricultural assistance than the applicable part of their taxes.
I remember an argument on the floor a number of years ago in which we were debating, I think, funding for the National Endowment for the Arts, and Mr. Burton of Indiana was orating against the NEA, and he said it's wrong for this reason and that reason and the other reason. And anyway, he said, all the money goes to New York and Los Angeles.
And I got up and I said, you know, Mr. Burton, I'm shocked to discover that New York City, with 8.5 million people, doesn't get a penny of the wheat subsidy. How fair is that?
The fact is we don't grow wheat in New York, and the fact is that money should be distributed--and I'm not opposed to the wheat subsidy. It may be--I'm not an expert on the farm program, but it may be that farm States need it, and it may be that other States need other things. But we should spend Federal money where it's needed, and we should tax it where we can tax it efficiently and equitably. And the two may not have the same relationship to each other. And if you start establishing this principle that you have to get at least back as much as you put in on this thing, in this case, transportation, why not on everything else?
And then you'd say, well, it's very unfair that a given State sends more to Washington than it gets back at all. Well, some States do. New York does, other States do. Other States get back more than they send to Washington, but that's the point of a Federal union.
So simply to say on any given area that we send--our State sends more to Washington or more taxes collected than we get back does not demonstrate inequity or equity. There may be good reasons for that. And you may want to make an argument that overall the State has a balance of payments deficit with the Federal Government, but there may be good reasons for that, too.
When many of these formulas were set up, the educational formula, for instance, a lot of States send more money to Washington that gets paid back in education, and then they get it back. Other States are the other way around, because when the allocation formulas were set up, it was deliberately decided that richer States should subsidize poorer States. And I'm not sure that was wrong. But the fact is that's the way a Federal union operates. And if you want to say a Federal union shouldn't operate that way and we should start saying that it's unfair, then you're questioning the entire basis of our Constitution, and frankly, there's no equity in that, especially when you limit it to one subject, to one area.
Again, what we ought to be debating is not this very interesting theory, theoretical thing which has no application in the real world because there is no such thing as a donor State right now and it won't have any real impact at all, because every State will still get the same amount of money under the bill.
But this highway bill has been in conference for 6 weeks. Last Friday, the U.S. Department of Labor reported that more than 2.2 million construction and manufacturing workers remain out of work, and we're in the height of the summer construction season. The highway bill has been in conference for 6 weeks and the conferees, of whom I'm one, are now wasting precious time as House Republicans are working to air- drop poison pill provisions that never passed the House into the conference report. Without further congressional action, highway and transit investments will entirely shut down at the end of the month.
Why are we wasting time here on this theoretical motion to instruct, which has no practical consequences whatsoever, when the conferees are being faced by Republican poison pills eliminating occupational safety and health protection for hazmat workers, eliminating dedicated funding for transportation enhancement projects, expanding truck weights to destroy our highways faster? That's what's holding up a highway and transportation bill that will get 2 million people back to work. That's what we ought to be saying. Let's move this bill instead of wasting our time on entirely theoretical questions like this one.
I reserve the balance of my time.
I yield myself such time as I may consume.
I'll just say one thing. I think we've beaten this dead horse about as much as we can.
Is 95 percent reasonable? It's unreasonable, in my opinion; 92 percent is unreasonable; 89 percent is unreasonable. There ought to be no such figure because money should be allocated where needed and should be raised where it can best be raised on the questions of equity, efficiency, et cetera.
And I'll give you one other example. Certain States have coastlines. The gulf coast has a lot of hurricanes. We spend a lot of money there. Should we say, well, gee, we don't have as many hurricanes. We shouldn't spend that percentage of our tax money on hurricane relief in the gulf.
We don't say that because we're one country. We don't say that we shouldn't spend money on relief to States that have other natural disasters because we don't have those kinds of natural disasters.
As a general principle, money should be raised, and there's no difference because you say it's a user fee. All taxes, in some sense, are a user fee. They're the price for civilization, as Mark Twain said.
And maybe you shouldn't have gasoline taxes. You should finance it some other way. That's a whole different discussion.
Yes, as I said before, I'm quite well aware that people are going to come here. They're going to vote, and they're just going to look at are they a theoretical donor State or a theoretical donee State and they're going to vote on that basis, even though no one is, in fact, a donee State right now because everybody gets more than they put in. And this will have no practical effect, but some day it might.
But the fact is that there is no reason to pick the highways as against everything else. Some States contribute a lot more in Federal taxes than they get back in Federal money, others don't. My State does. We don't say it's unfair. We don't say we've got to change the formula.
Maybe specific formulas ought to be changed for various reasons. There are all kinds of reasons for all the formulas. There's a different formula for agriculture, a different formula for education, different formula for everything. They have all kinds of different justifications and different histories. To pick out this one area and say this one area, but no other, has to be 95 percent, why not 75 percent? or 92 percent? It's been going up every time we pass a bill. We think it's beyond fair.
To pick out one particular area and say there's got to be an equivalence or a relationship between how much money comes in and how much goes out or from where it comes in and goes out, whereas we don't do that in the rest of Federal budget, that's not equitable.
And I wish we were spending our time now not on this theoretical discussion--theoretical because it has no practical implication, as I said before, because it will not, in fact, affect any State or any dollars--instead of dealing with the fact that the Republicans are holding up a bill by parachuting poison pills into the conference discussion, that's what we ought to be about.
I yield back the balance of my time.