Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 23. My friend from Nebraska suggested a number of issues that we intend to challenge during the course of the next half hour, based…
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 23. My friend from Nebraska suggested a number of issues that we intend to challenge during the course of the next half hour, based upon the facts.
This is theater tonight, Mr. Speaker. If we didn't get enough of the entertainment factor last week, we are going to proceed with it again this evening.
Mr. Speaker, 87,000 IRS agents, let me debunk that right away. There are regular retirements of up to 8,000 a year, we are replacing them.
How about the methodology of a computer upgrade, an investment in technology, more modeling, or should we have an IRS that operates the way Southwest Airlines did last week--to the dismay of the American family.
This is a messaging bill, Mr. Speaker. The message that they choose to send--and let everybody understand this, the first bill that they have submitted, according to the Congressional Budget Office, adds $114 billion to the Federal deficit. Legislation number one.
They don't want a fairer tax administration. They think it is bad for some of their supporters. You know what they're attempting to do tonight is bad for middle-class families, it is bad for small businesses, who are then asked to pay more when the people at the top don't pay their fair share.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record a letter from Charles Rossotti, the former IRS Commissioner.
March 1, 2020.
Hon. Richard Neal,
Chairman, Committee on Ways & Means,
House of Representatives, Washington, DC.
Dear Chairman Neal: I was IRS commissioner from 1997 to
2002. At the time, Congress passed a major bill that produced
some important, long-lasting reforms, including converting
the IRS to electronic filing and improving treatment of
taxpayers.
I believe there is a major modernization opportunity today
that could efficiently recover a large amount of revenue. It
could gradually shrink the tax gap, while also easing burden
for millions of taxpayers who interact with the IRS.
I am enclosing my article in Tax Notes, entitled ``Recover
$1.6 Trillion, Modernize Tax Compliance and Assistance,''
which explains this opportunity.
I would be happy to talk further to you or your staff about
this opportunity.
Sincerely,
Charles O. Rossotti,
Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 1997-2002.
Mr. Speaker, he points out in the opening paragraph of a tax notes special. By the way, those of us in the tax world know what tax notes means. He said that last year, this would be 2021, the Federal Government failed to collect $574 billion of taxes that were legally due but not paid. That is equal to more than most of the Federal deficit. If they want to reduce the Federal tax deficit, we should do a better job with tax compliance, which, after all, is the basis of a representative democracy.
Mr. Speaker, 86 percent of the American people pay their taxes every year on time. Do you know why? Because they get paid in wages and it comes from withholding taxes, that is what it is about.
The American people are wise to what is being presented here tonight. We live in a two-tier tax system. Wage earners follow the rules. Wealthy billionaires, they get to skirt their responsibilities. That is what we are being asked to vote on tonight.
IRS funding has been stagnant, staffing levels have dropped. Have you tried getting an IRS office on the phone?
How many times will we continue to let those at the top get away without paying their share?
We lose out on--just think of it again--almost $600 billion a year in unpaid taxes. It is very sophisticated tax planning that is done by high-priced attorneys and CPAs. It is estimated that this could be up to $7 trillion because we score items over the course of 10 years.
What might this funding pay for?
How about Social Security? How about Medicare? How about a strong military? How about a child tax credit that could be expanded? How about universal paid family and medical leave? How about bringing down healthcare costs?
The audit rates amongst millionaires have declined by 70 percent since 2010. Let me repeat that for anybody who didn't get that. The audit rate for millionaires has declined by 70 percent since 2010.
Low-income workers who receive the earned income tax credit, they are audited more now than taxpayers who are making over $1 million a year.
All we are asking for is fairness in the distribution of the responsibilities as to how we pay for government. There is a different set of standards across the land now. And to point that out to you once again--what is our commitment to America?
It should be based on a fair tax system that collects what is due from those who ought to be paying.
The former IRS Commissioner, a Republican, Charles Rettig, he pointed out that he was fully in support of the legislation that we were offering because the IRS is continually out-maneuvered and out-gunned by sophisticated efforts from tax lawyers and CPAs.
We have to put American families over the politics in the distribution of theater that we are witnessing tonight. See through this legislation and vote ``no.''
Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Doggett), who intends to talk about the tax gap.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record the Statement of the Administration Policy opposing H.R. 23.
Statement of Administration Policy
H.R. 23--To rescind certain balances made available to the Internal
Revenue Service
The Administration strongly opposes H.R. 23, to rescind
certain balances made available to the Internal Revenue
Service (IRS). The bill would rescind funding passed in the
Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) that enables the IRS to crack
down on large corporations and high-income people who cheat
on their taxes and evade the taxes that they owe under the
law.
This reckless bill would increase the deficit by nearly
$115 billion over 10 years per an estimate by the
Congressional Budget Office by enabling wealthy tax cheats to
engage in additional tax fraud and avoidance. To be clear,
the Treasury Secretary has already directed that none of the
additional IRS resources be used to increase audit rates
relative to historical levels for small businesses or
households with incomes below $400,000. Far from protecting
middle-class families or small businesses, H.R. 23 protects
wealthy tax cheats at the expense of honest, middle-class
taxpayers. Each year the top one percent hides about 20
percent of their income from the government so they can get
away with not paying any tax on it. That means that working
people--who report 99 percent of their income to the IRS--pay
a larger share of collected taxes than they should. Not only
does it shift the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle-
class, it would also make it harder for middle-class families
and small businesses to get timely tax refunds and other
important services from the IRS, by rescinding billions in
funding for IRS information technology and operations.
With their first economic legislation of the new Congress,
House Republicans are making clear that their top economic
priority is to allow the rich and multi-billion dollar
corporations to skip out on their taxes, while making life
harder for ordinary, middle-class families that pay the taxes
they owe. That's their agenda; not lowering costs or cutting
taxes for hard working Americans--as President Biden has
consistently advocated.
If the President were presented with H.R. 23--or any other
bill that enables the wealthiest Americans and largest
corporations to cheat on their taxes, while honest and hard-
working Americans are left to pay the tab--he would veto it.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record a CBO score for this bill that is showing that it will add $114 billion to the Federal deficit over the next 10 years.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record an op-ed piece from the former IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig, a Republican, titled: ``IRS sets the record straight: We're going after tax evaders, not honest Americans.''
[From Yahoo! Finance, Aug. 25, 2022]
IRS Sets the Record Straight: We're Going After Tax Evaders, Not Honest
Americans: Op-Ed
(By Charles P. Rettig)
As the nation's tax administrator, the IRS plays a unique
role in our nation. It can be a difficult job. After all,
does anyone really like paying taxes? Of course not. But
they're essential to fund the roads we drive on, the schools
our children attend, support our military and so much more.
Unfortunately, given the nature of this work and historical
stereotypes, the IRS is often perceived as an easy target for
mischaracterizations of what
IRS employees do--and that's exactly what's happened in
recent weeks.
The recent debate over providing badly needed funding to
the IRS is filled with outright false suggestions about what
the agency and our hardworking employees do--as well as how
the additional resources will be handled.
The bottom line is this: These resources are absolutely not
about increasing audit scrutiny on small business or middle-
income Americans. The investment of these important resources
is designed to support honest, compliant taxpayers. Our
investment is designed around a Treasury directive that audit
rates do not rise relative to recent years for households
making under $400,000.
We all want a fair and impartial system where everyone
contributes their fair share, no more and certainly no less.
A robust, visible tax enforcement effort focused on high-end
tax evaders and those supporting them is a priority.
Underpayments by tax evaders shift the burden of operating
our great country onto honest, hard-working Americans who
follow the law. With this new law, honest taxpayers will see
badly needed, meaningful service improvements at the IRS. The
IRS should be able to answer the phones and process
information--including tax returns--in a timely manner.
Enhanced IT systems and taxpayer services will mean that
honest taxpayers will be better able to comply with the tax
laws, ultimately resulting in a lower--yes, lower--likelihood
of being audited and a reduced burden on them.
To set the record straight on this important legislation
and dispel any lingering misperceptions, here are some key
facts to keep in mind:
False Statement: The IRS is hiring 87,000 armed special
agents to harass taxpayers.
Reality: Absolutely false. The majority of new hires the
IRS makes will be those who answer the phones, work on
processing individual tax returns or go after high-end
taxpayers or corporations who are avoiding their taxes. Less
than 1 percent of new hires will be in our IRS Criminal
Investigation (IRS-CI) area, which currently has a total of
about 2,100 special agents and is currently hiring about 300
more.
These CI special agents investigate criminal tax violations
typically related to money laundering, Bank Secrecy, National
Security and National Defense matters. They have been
involved in dismantling terrorist financing efforts and
criminal cartels as well as eliminating child exploitation
operations in the Dark Net that led to the arrests of
hundreds of people throughout the world. They do not perform
civil tax administrative functions such as audits of tax
returns. They are law enforcement officers, and every
American should be extremely proud they are on our team.
False Statement: All IRS employees--and those being hired
under the new legislation--will carry firearms.
Reality: Again, absolutely false. More than 97 percent of
IRS employees do not carry weapons. This includes key civil-
side enforcement personnel, including revenue agents,
examiners and others involved in audits and compliance work.
Less than 3 percent of IRS employees--expressly limited to
Criminal Investigation special agents--carry firearms. IRS
Criminal Investigation oversees the entirety of the work
related to criminal violations of the tax law and other
financial crimes. This is consistent with other federal law
enforcement agencies.
False Statement: The additional funding will be used to
hire more auditors to ``shake down'' average taxpayers.
Reality: False. Wage-earning taxpayers like firefighters,
construction workers, teachers and police officers are among
the most compliant taxpayers, given that their incomes come
from Forms W-2 and 1099. These resources are absolutely not
about increasing audit scrutiny on small businesses or
middle-income Americans. Instead, the additional resources
will also be focused on large corporate and high net-worth
taxpayers to enforce laws already on the books that the IRS
does not have enough resources to pursue.
False Statement: The new legislation will be a massive
overnight expansion of the IRS.
Reality: False. This funding--which will be spread over 10
years--will add employees over time as we modernize our
operations with meaningful technological enhancements. In
addition, the IRS has one of the oldest workforces in
government, and staffing has been in a deep decline for many
years. More than 50,000 employees will retire in the next few
years, leaving the foundation of the tax system that the
nation relies on at risk. We've been losing 10,000 employees
a year.
Overall, current IRS staffing is far below historical
norms. In 1992, the IRS had 117,000 employees--38,000 more
than today. Back then, the agency was dealing with fewer
taxpayers; the U.S. population has grown almost 30 percent
since 1992.
False Statement: This new funding will allow overreach by
the IRS, putting agents on every street corner and prying
into people's personal financial lives.
Reality: False. This funding will allow the IRS to better
serve the nation's taxpayers--and ultimately meet the
critical needs of our country. Our employees care and, like
others in government, take an oath to support our country. We
take pride in hiring veterans, people with disabilities and
people from all walks of life and from every corner of our
country. Many of our employees, including myself, are members
of a military family. And all of our employees reflect the
taxpayers we serve.
I am an extremely proud American, a member of a proud
military family, and simply will not accept baseless, harmful
assertions against the interests of our country and the
proud, hard-working employees of the IRS.
Everyone should know this about IRS employees: We care, a
lot, about this country and you.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from California (Mr. Thompson), who is a much-valued member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman from Kansas, my friend. He just pointed out that the people at the bottom are audited more than the people at the top. That is precisely the point that we are attempting to make here during the course of the next few minutes.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the distinguished gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Hoyer), who is the former majority leader.
Mr. Speaker, let me congratulate Mr. Smith, incidentally, on his recent elevation to become the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee. We look forward to a productive session during the next couple of years.
Mr. Speaker, I include into the Record a blog post by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities summarizing the fact check that has repeatedly debunked the false claim that we just heard a few seconds ago, that the IRS is going to hire 87,000 new agents immediately.
[From Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, January 9, 2023]
House GOP's First Bill: A Misleading Gambit To Protect Interests of
Wealthy Tax Cheats
(By Chuck Marr)
House Republicans have announced that their first
legislative priority is to rescind nearly all of the
Inflation Reduction Act's $80 billion in ten-year funding for
the IRS, while repeating falsehoods and inflammatory rhetoric
about how that funding will be used. While the Republicans
have launched a campaign about a false ``army'' of 87,000
agents, the debate should focus on one accurate and alarming
number: the IRS has 2,284 fewer skilled auditors to handle
the sophisticated returns of wealthy taxpayers than it did in
1954. The decade-long, House Republican-driven budget cuts
have created dysfunction at the IRS, where relatively few
millionaires are now audited. If House Republicans succeed in
rolling back this critically needed funding and maintaining
this dysfunction, the IRS would be woefully understaffed,
hindering its ability to administer the tax code and collect
legally owed taxes--particularly from high-income and high-
wealth taxpayers. On behalf of honest taxpayers, policymakers
should reject the House Republican effort to protect wealthy
tax cheats.
The IRS workforce is composed of civilian public servants,
such as accountants and customer service representatives, who
collect nearly all the federal revenue to fund
our government, from Medicare and Social Security to our
armed forces. Its skilled auditors, also known as revenue
agents, are highly trained to handle sophisticated tax
returns of wealthy people and multinational corporations. All
of these IRS employees perform a core function of government,
are central to the workings of our democracy, and work on
behalf of honest taxpayers.
Republican IRS critics, however, have constructed a
narrative around the IRS workforce becoming an ``army'' of
87,000 ``armed agents'' whose enemies are ``hardworking
American families and small businesses.'' This rhetoric is
false and dangerous.
Fact checkers have repeatedly debunked the 87,000 figure,
which comes from a prior Treasury estimate that it would use
new funding to hire 87,000 total staff over the next ten
years, including IRS employees in all departments, not just
skilled auditors. These are people who answer phones, process
returns, program computers, as well as a fraction--albeit an
important one--who audit complex tax returns.
The House GOP campaign ignores the reality of today's IRS--
which has resulted from the sharp budget cuts that
Republicans have pushed since 2010--as well as the harm that
would flow from rescinding much of the Inflation Reduction
Act's new IRS funding. The upcoming debate needs to cut
through the obfuscation of the House Republican campaign and
focus on honest and pertinent numbers.
Consider, in 2021, the IRS had 8,321 skilled auditors.
That's 40 percent fewer than the agency had in 2010, the year
before House Republicans were in the majority and began
driving the last decade of steep IRS budget cuts.
Moreover, it's 2,284 fewer revenue agents than the IRS had
in 1954--not a typo. The last time the IRS had fewer revenue
agents than it has today was in 1953. Today's economy is
seven times larger than it was in 1953 and our population has
more than doubled since then. Today's tax returns of wealthy
people and large multinationals are more complex and global,
which take more time for auditors to review.
As a result of these budget cuts and fewer skilled
auditors, audit rates have plummeted for wealthy individuals
and large corporations.
For the largest corporations (those with more than $1
billion in assets), the audit rate fell by more than half
between 2010 and 2017. For millionaires, the audit rate fell
by roughly 77 percent over the same period. Preliminary audit
data for 2018 and 2019 suggest that the audit rate may have
declined over 90 percent between 2010 and 2019.
House Republicans want to scare people with their false
claims about how the IRS would use the new resources. But the
reality is that, today, the IRS skilled audit staff is 2,284
smaller than in 1954, only a tiny fraction of millionaires is
audited, and large multinationals can hire large squads of
lawyers to easily overwhelm the resources of the IRS. One
only needs to skim President Trump's tax returns, the
indictment of convicted tax cheat Paul Manafort, and a
ProPublica investigation of how Facebook outgunned the IRS to
grasp the resources necessary to be serious about enforcing
our tax laws and how reckless it would be to keep the number
of skilled auditors at 1950s levels, as the House Republicans
would do.
Honest taxpayers and business owners deserve better. They
deserve an IRS that processes their tax returns and tax
refunds efficiently, answers the phone when they call with
questions, and ensures that the wealthy and profitable
corporations are paying the taxes they legally owe.
A key element of a healthy, functioning democracy is a
transparent tax system that is fairly enforced so that people
and corporations pay what they owe and the well-heeled and
powerful cannot flout their responsibility to pay their
taxes.
Efforts to protect wealthy tax cheats and purposely
undermine the IRS's ability to enforce tax laws are anti-
democratic and should be resoundingly rejected.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record a FactCheck.org article confirming that not all of the 87,000 people who will be hired are going to work on enforcement.
[From FactCheck.org, Aug. 18, 2022]
IRS Will Target `High-Income' Tax Evaders with New Funding, Contrary to
Social Media Posts
(By Brea Jones)
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. Larson) who is a distinguished member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, that is precisely the point that we have attempted to make. Customer service is not occurring because the IRS has been cut by 30 percent over the last 15 years.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record a letter from the IRS Commissioner to the House of Representatives confirming that the IRS will not raise audit rates on those making under $400,000 a year.
Department of the Treasury,
Internal Revenue Service,
Washington, DC, August 4, 2022.
Dear Member of the House of Representatives, It has been
the greatest honor of my professional life to spend the last
four years at the helm of the IRS. I am struck each day by
the commitment of dedicated IRS employees to helping American
families. And our employees have done all that without the
tools to do so effectively. For too long, the agency has not
had the resources that it needs to ensure the tax laws are
enforced fairly and that Americans receive the level and
quality of service they deserve. We are the greatest country
in the world, yet the agency that touches more Americans than
any other continually struggles to receive sufficient
resources to fulfill its important mission.
The resources in the reconciliation package will get us
back to historical norms in areas of challenge for the
agency--large corporate and global high-net-worth taxpayers--
as well as new areas like pass-through entities and
multinational taxpayers with international tax issues, where
we need sophisticated, specialized teams in place that are
able to unpack complex structures and identify noncompliance.
These resources are absolutely not about increasing audit
scrutiny on small businesses or middle-income Americans. As
we've been planning, our investment of these enforcement
resources is designed around the Department of the Treasury's
directive that audit rates will not rise relative to recent
years for households making under $400,000. Other resources
will be invested in
employees and IT systems that will allow us to better serve
all taxpayers, including small businesses and middle-income
taxpayers. Enhanced IT systems and taxpayer service will
actually mean that honest taxpayers will be better able to
comply with the tax laws, resulting in a lower likelihood of
being audited and a reduced burden on them.
Large corporate and high-net-worth taxpayers often engage
teams of sophisticated representatives who pursue unsettled
or sometimes questionable interpretations of tax law. The
integrity and fairness of our tax administrative system
relies upon the ability of our agency to maintain a strong,
visible, robust enforcement presence directed to these and
other similarly situated taxpayers when they are
noncompliant. These important efforts also support honest
taxpayers who voluntarily comply with their filing and
reporting requirements.
The IRS has fewer front-line, experienced examiners in the
field than at any time since World War II, and fewer
employees than at any time since the 1970s. Advances in
technology have been helpful but have not kept pace with the
ever-increasing responsibilities and challenges facing the
IRS. As a result, the IRS has for too long been unable to
pursue meaningful, impactful examinations of large corporate
and high-networth taxpayers to ensure they are paying their
fair share. This creates a direct revenue loss from evaders
and lessens the potential to deter others from pursuing a
similar path of noncompliance. Every American should support
a fair and impartial system of tax administration supported
by an appropriately resourced tax administrator. In fact, the
continued success of our country depends, in part, upon the
success of the agency in appropriately, fairly and
impartially enforcing the tax laws and in providing
meaningful, impactful services to every American.
As an extremely proud American, I'm grateful for your
support of the IRS and our dedicated employees. I cannot be
forceful enough in emphasizing that these resources will be
transformative for the agency and for American taxpayers. I
am available to meet with you at your convenience to discuss
the foregoing.
Thank you,
Charles P. Rettig.
Mr. Speaker, I include in the Record a letter from Secretary Yellen to the IRS Commissioner, directing the IRS not to use any additional funding to increase audits on small businesses and households earning less than $400,000 a year.
Department of the Treasury,
Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, DC, August 10, 2022.
Charles P. Rettig,
Commissioner, Internal Revenue Service,
Washington, DC.
Dear Commissioner: The Inflation Reduction Act includes
much-needed funding for the IRS to improve taxpayer service,
modernize outdated technological infrastructure, and increase
equity in the tax system by enforcing the tax laws against
those high-earners, large corporations, and complex
partnerships who today do not pay what they owe.
These crucial investments have been a focus of the Biden
Administration since the President's first day in office, and
I was heartened to see the legislation pass the Senate this
weekend.
Notwithstanding the changes that arose because of
Republican challenges during the Byrd process, I write today
to confirm the commitment that has been a guiding precept of
the planning that you and your team are undertaking: that
audit rates will not rise relative to recent years for
households making under $400,000 annually.
Specifically, I direct that any additional resources--
including any new personnel or auditors that are hired--shall
not be used to increase the share of small business or
households below the $400,000 threshold that are audited
relative to historical levels. This means that, contrary to
the misinformation from opponents of this legislation, small
business or households earning $400,000 per year or less will
not see an increase in the chances that they are audited.
Instead, enforcement resources will focus on high-end
noncompliance. There, sustained, multiyear funding is so
critical to the agency's ability to make the investments
needed to pursue a robust attack on the tax gap by targeting
crucial challenges. like large corporations, high-net-worth
individuals and complex pass-throughs, where today the IRS
has resources to initiate just 7,500 audits annually out of
more than 4 million returns received.
This is challenging work that requires a team of
sophisticated revenue agents in place to spend thousands of
hours poring over complicated returns, and it is also work
that has huge revenue potential: indeed, an additional hour
auditing someone making more than $5 million annually
generates an estimated $4,500 of additional taxes collected.
This is essential work that l know the IRS is eager to
undertake.
For regular taxpayers, as you emphasized last week, the
result of this resource infusion will be a lower likelihood
of audit by an agency that has the data and technological
infrastructure in place to target enforcement resources where
they belong--on the high end of the income distribution,
where the top 1 percent alone is estimated to not be paying
$160 billion in owed taxes each year. That's important as a
matter of revenue-raising, but it's also essential as a
matter of fairness.
Crucially, these resources will support a much-needed
upgrade of technology that is decades out-of-date, and an in
vestment in taxpayer service so that the IRS is finally able
to communicate with taxpayers in an efficient, timely manner.
I look forward to working with you on creating new digital
tools to allow taxpayers to get information from the IRS
instantaneously and on improving taxpayer service, so the
agency is well-equipped to answer calls when they come in.
This historic investment in our tax system will accomplish
two critical objectives. It will raise substantial revenue to
address the deficit; and it will create a fairer system,
where those at the top who do not today comply with their tax
obligations find it far less easy to do so, and where all
taxpayers receive the service from the IRS that they deserve,
and that your dedicated workforce is eager to deliver. The
importance of the work ahead cannot be overstated.
Sincerely,
Janet L. Yellen.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Oregon (Mr. Blumenauer), a very capable member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Pascrell), who is sure to offer clarity to this important issue.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Davis), a very capable Member from Chicago.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from New York (Mr. Higgins), an individual whose knowledge of the economic system in America is unsurpassed.
Mr. Speaker, the challenge that was offered by the gentlewoman from California is as simple as this: We are weaponizing billionaires not to pay their fair share. That is what is happening.
What we are asking here is the simplicity of allowing people at the very top to pay their fair share.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Alabama (Ms. Sewell), a capable and valued member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. Chu), a very capable member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Wisconsin (Ms. Moore), a very capable member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Kildee).
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Beyer), a very successful businessman and entrepreneur.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Evans), a very distinguished member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I think part of that new recruiting class at the IRS is going to simply answer the phones. That would be helpful, a step in the right direction.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Schneider), a CPA who really knows something about compliance.
Mr. Speaker, a reminder that the 87,000 is over 10 years. The $80 billion is over 10 years. That is $8 billion a year for replacement of those who retire, who leave the service of the IRS.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from California (Mr. Panetta), another very capable member of the Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from California (Mr. Gomez), not only a very capable member of the committee but, last week, during those 4 days here of utter chaos, he carried that child around this Chamber. During those 4 days, I think the child grew by 2 inches. That is how long we were there.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson Lee).
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from California (Mr. Sherman), who is a CPA, I believe.
Mr. Speaker, as my friend, the gentleman from Nebraska pointed out, with the Presidential audit system, Joe Biden overpaid his taxes. I hope the Record will reflect that, that the Democratic President overpaid his taxes, and the IRS wisely made sure that he had the proper refund.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Ohio (Ms. Kaptur), the longest serving woman in the history of Congress.
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time for the purpose of closing.
Mr. Speaker, this has been an edifying debate. But as Harry Truman noted, let's just talk about the facts. Let's debunk the argument that we are hiring 87,000 armed IRS agents to go knocking on doors in the middle of the night.
This is a substantial investment in technology. This is a substantial investment in customer service. Yes, the $80 billion is over 10 years. That is $8 billion a year to improve customer service. That is what we are talking about.
At least 8,000 agents retire from the IRS every year. We are simply replacing them. You know, in our school systems back home, when 200 teachers retire, we replace 200 teachers. That is what we are doing here with the IRS.
They make this preposterous argument that all of a sudden, next week, 87,000 armed--because you always have to use the language that is incendiary enough to get people worked up around here--that 87,000 armed agents in the dark of night will be hounding innocent taxpayers, despite what Janet Yellen said about no taxpayer making under $400,000 a year is going to be targeted.
Mr. Rossotti, the former IRS commissioner, not me, said at least $574 billion a year goes uncollected. He is a Democrat. A Republican IRS commissioner, Mr. Rettig, who we worked with, said it might be a trillion dollars a year that goes uncollected, a Donald Trump appointee, who stated that and raised that issue a number of times in front of the Committee on Ways and Means.
Let me make a point that I raised earlier. Tax compliance in a representative democracy is a fundamental commitment to civilization and first-class services.
So by not collecting this revenue, are we going to say down the road, well, maybe we will cut Social Security; maybe we will cut Medicare; maybe we will cut Medicaid; or maybe we will cut the American military.
Now, we all know that in this discussion that the facts are very clear here. They have been upset with the IRS for a long period of time. We all remember the Lois Lerner episode, even though the facts in that case pointed out that the advocates on the right and the left were audited at the same rate. That is a fact.
So as we close this argument out, let's stand up for the honest taxpayers in America and make sure that the IRS that currently cracks down on the EITC will be able to actually address some of the complexities of modern tax law, which we all agree, by the way, the system is far too complex, but I have been through that argument many times here, as well.
This fear-mongering that you are hearing tonight about upgrading the technology and software investments at the IRS for the purposes of modeling for better tax compliance is just that. It is fear-mongering.
All we want is a set of rules that is applicable to all as it relates to tax collection. This is not anything other than simply suggesting that there is a fairness that is applied to the Internal Revenue Service, so that they might address and make sure that those at the very top are complying with the same laws we ask the wage earners through withholding to address every single day.
Thanks for a spirited debate, Mr. Speaker, and to our friends on the other side.
Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.