Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the gentlewoman from Ohio for yielding to me and for the wonderful work that she is doing in this area and for the Special Order that she has taken out this evening to explain to the American taxpayers…
Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the gentlewoman from Ohio for yielding to me and for the wonderful work that she is doing in this area and for the Special Order that she has taken out this evening to explain to the American taxpayers and to the American people just what is at risk by these Republican policies.
I know she has covered a great deal of territory already, but I want to just talk about things perhaps that have not yet been discussed or, if they have been, discussed tangentially. And that is the issue of what the government ought to be doing with respect to tax policy. I had the good fortune, the gentlewoman might remember, of doing a great deal of work on this tax policy.
Having spent time in school to work on it and having gotten a master's of laws in taxation and having studied the issues of what tax policy ought to be involved with, what I found out was this: that there is a legitimate concern on the part of government to have a tax policy that is fair in the first place, to have a tax policy that is simple in the second place, to have one that does not intrude into the private sector decisionmaking of people in the third place; and perhaps if we find a social policy we all agree on, we found it legitimate to use the Tax Code sometimes to encourage certain behavior on the part of the public.
The one thing on the fairness I think the gentlewoman has spoken very well about how this policy violates the Federal standard of fairness any number of ways, and I want to talk about one last way it does a little later; but the one thing that I think it does that people ought to recognize, and it has effects for the deficit, for the interest burden, all the rest, is that it puts the government into a position where it is going to compete with the private sector for money. It is going to drive up demand for money because we are going to have to borrow money. There is only so much of it out there. We have to borrow money to fund the government's operations. When we do that, we drive up the demand for money; and when we do that, we drive up interest costs. No question about it. And so this government is going to compete with the private sector. It has to because there is not enough money to fund this tax policy. We are going to put a tax policy together and borrow money to pay for it. It does not make any sense at all. But the biggest problem is that it is inescapable that it is going to drive up demand for money out of this economy, and we are going to borrow money from our banks here and make it tough on our country, and we can also borrow money from foreign governments and make it tough for steel. So this is an antitax policy, logically thinking, when we go this route.
The second thing, there has been a debate for many years about whether it is a good idea or a bad idea to tax capital gains or a bad idea or a good idea to tax dividends, dividend income. All of this has been the subject of debate for many years. And one of the reasons why people have avoided dealing with it is because it is so expensive to fix it, to deal with it, to try to come up with a solution for it. So every time we have a tax reform session, people gripe one side or the other about these questions; but they never deal with it because they are so horrendously expensive.
Here we have now a President in the middle of a recession, certainly in a huge downturn in our economy, talking about restructuring the Tax Code, essentially is what is happening here, in the middle of a recession. This is not about stimulus for the economy. This is not about giving people jobs. It really is all about restructuring the system that some people think penalizes rich people more than it should, and there are all sorts of debates, as I said, about that and we can come down a lot of different ways on the question. But this is no time to do tax reform when we need a stimulus package for the government and for our people. This is no time to take these issues that we fought over for many years, not new issues, and bring them to the floor now under the cloak of a stimulus package and of job creation. This is not what it is.
And the last question I have that I want to just raise with the American people is this one: everybody at the upper levels gets a tax break from this President's proposal. The folks at the very highest level, 38.6 percent, get a 3.6 percent tax break and down the line to those who are at around the 25 percent rate; and they all get a 2 percent tax breakdown to 25. The folks who are on the bottom, the 15 percent tax rate, that bracket, and the 10 percent bracket get nothing. They get no help. They get no break under this President's plan. They are not touched at all. So those folks do not have any unearned income to speak of, very little, minimal, 7 percent, less than that of income, the whole group, and almost all of it, 2 percent of the folks, are getting that in that little bracket. They are just a handful of people in that bracket. So what we are doing is moving from a system where we are taxing unearned income one way and to a system where we are only going to tax wages of working people. So as we lower the capital gains taxation from 20 to 15 and the upper brackets by 2 percent in some cases, 3 percent in one case, we do nothing for the folks at the very end.
So my question is if we are going to give a tax break, why not give it to everyone, an income tax break? Then there are other folks who do not pay income taxes. In my district there are 35 percent of the folks who work every day, 40 hours a week or more, who never make enough to pay income taxes; but they are paying the payroll tax through the nose, and the difficulty is we do not touch that issue either. These folks get no break under the President's system.
It is just unfair for them not to get a break, but beyond that, it is nonsensical for a stimulus package not to include these people because, as the Members know, these are the ones who actually would spend their money if they got the money from the government, got something back from the refundable credit on the payroll taxes or refundable credit in some other cases. They would use their money to buy the refrigerator they need or the child's clothes for school or something that is a household need that they cannot now meet because they do not have much money. So if we really wanted to stimulate the economy and we wanted to stimulate consumption, which is what this is all about, either consumption by the State governments or local governments or by individuals or businesses, in this case individuals, we would put money in the hands of the people who actually spend it and consume some of the goods and services out there in the country that they need to consume.
So apart from all of the issues that the gentlewoman has raised, and they are wonderful issues and ones that we have heard a great deal about in our caucus and in our debates in the Congress, and they are the central ones in this debate, but I wanted to bring these other issues out to discuss them because I cannot find one way that this deal makes any sense for the American people, and I do not understand, frankly, how the other side can put these proposals forward with a straight face.
On every level I have been able to examine, it does not make any sense, and I hope that when the American people have the time to examine this argument that we are making here, examine the issues here, that they will come to the same conclusion that the gentlewoman and I have come to, that this policy is a bad policy for America. It does not stimulate the economy. It is a terrible intrusion into the tax system that is going to end up with the private sector competing with the government or the other way around, and it is going to drive up the cost of interest in the long term, and of course it is an issue of getting involved in a structural tax debate that we have had on the table for I do not know how long and we are now trying to fix under the cloak of a stimulus package.
So I want to again thank the gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. Jones) for what she has done this evening in giving us a chance to talk about these issues, and I want to implore the American people to really examine this very closely because it is a critical point in the history of our country. We are about to make decisions now that are going to saddle our children and grandchildren for years to come, and people really ought to pay attention to what is happening in this House.
Mr. Speaker, of course not. It is not mentioned in the package, and as most of the experts have said, this is the greatest multiplier effect of most of the things we can put on the table to do, and that is to put money into the hands of people again who have been out of work, who have been strapped, who do not have enough money to pay for the things that they need to take care of in their households, who we know will consume if they get the money.
Stimulating the economy is all about stimulating consumption. It is not about anything else. And if we are not smart enough to give people money they can use now, and these are not people who are sitting around looking
for welfare, looking for a handout from the government; these are hard- working people who have worked for many years, in most cases, who now because of economic hard times and down turns in the economy, layoffs all over the place, have ended up without a job. These are folks who are actively seeking work, going out looking for a job every day, going to the unemployment offices, unemployment services, looking for help, looking for a job, and they have not been able to find work because this economy has lost 2.6 million jobs in the last couple of years. So it is just hard to find a job out there.
This ought to be in this package. If the other side were serious about stimulating the economy, this is the best way to stimulate consumption, and the fact that it is not in the bill argues that they are not really serious about getting this done.
Mr. Speaker, one of the smartest things we did in this Congress was to pass the EITC and the next smartest thing we did was to expand it in the last few years to make sure we had more people covered. And it is a way to reward people for working. It was always designed to take low-income people and encourage them to stay on jobs that did not pay much because the welfare was competing quite handsomely with folks who were making such a low income until they might as well have stayed home if they were just looking at it on the basis of what is the better thing to do, stay home with the children, stay home and do whatever, or go to work. EITC is a conservative idea.
The earned income tax credit is a conservative idea. It is an idea to reward people for working, to award poor people staying on the job instead of choosing welfare. It ought to be embraced by the Republicans full throttle, and it ought to be as simple as it is to do anything else under the tax regime. Not that things are all that simple, but one of the major tenets of tax policy is to keep it as simple or to make it as simple as we can.
The fewer resources one has, and we know poor people have fewer resources than the people who are wealthier, the simpler we ought to make it for them. That is why we invented this short form of tax reporting; that is why you have this easy way to do your standard deduction, because you figure that these are the people who are not going to have a lot of money for tax preparation or access to accountants and lawyers and all the rest of it. So you make it as simple as you can for people who you know are going to be principally their own tax preparers, and you hope they can understand it without having to expend much money to do it. Up the line, people who have all these various deductions and exemptions they can take and all the rest, they are folks who usually can pay for the lawyers and accountants and the rest and get it all figured out and worry about saving money.
So I think the gentlewoman is dead right, that instead of making it more complicated for the poorest people in this country who are going to work every day, who are working hard every day, and who we have encouraged through the EITC to stay on the job rather than to accept welfare, we ought to make it simple for them to get their reporting done.
I thank the gentlewoman for what she is doing.