Mr. Speaker, I offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Speaker, as we begin consideration of the substitute, I would like us to focus on something pretty central to the…
Mr. Speaker, I offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute.
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, as we begin consideration of the substitute, I would like us to focus on something pretty central to the fundamentals of legislating. We ought to do as a Congress that which we can do. The substitute I bring forward will take effect during the tenure of this Congress. It is effective January 1, 2004. The majority proposal before us does nothing during the sitting of this Congress, nothing during the sitting of the next Congress, the Congress after that, the Congress after that, the Congress after that, or the Congress after that. Nothing until January 1, 2011.
We have heard so much from the other side. We have heard so much about how they care about all the problems, how mean of us to oppose their addressing the problems. And yet now when it comes to the substitute, this is where the rubber meets the road because we want to do something now and something meaningful and they do nothing. Nothing about their bill.
Not one whit of their bill applies during the sitting of this Congress or until the year 2011.
Again, I referenced earlier the heart-wrenching examples we have heard from the majority about family farmers. Let us talk for a minute about family farmers. I know something about family farmers. In representing the State of North Dakota, I probably represent more production acreage than any other Members of this House. The family farmers who have estate tax problems, and I am happy to tell my colleagues most of them do not, but of those that do, let us get after it. Let us get them relief and get them relief now.
The substitute I have advanced would give family farm couples $6 million in exclusion from estate tax. Any farmer in operation up to $6 million, no estate taxes. One hundred percent repeal, effective January 1. That is very meaningful relief and it is going to go right to the heart of the farm families that they are talking about.
Now, what do they offer by way of an alternative, this Congress, for dealing with these farm families? Absolutely nothing. In 2004, under their proposal, family farm estates over $3 million will be subject to estate tax; over $3 million. Family farm estates per couple in our situation: $6 million. We provide double the relief immediately. And so really, what they are offering these people is a total sham, because under their proposal, nobody gets anything until the very wealthiest, a tiny number of estates in this country, are taken care of.
Mr. Speaker, where I come from, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and that is especially true when we consider prospects that this year 2011 will actually offer the kind of relief that they proclaim so loudly. Five Congresses from now are going to be looking at a very different budget situation, because the cost of their proposal absolutely explodes in the very decade baby boomers retire.
Consider the chart here. Mr. Speaker, $162 billion of revenue loss in the first 10 years. It ramps up slowly, and then really clobbers you: A $500 million loss in '04; a $31 billion loss in the year 2011; $57 billion loss in 2012; $63 billion loss in 2013. You catch my drift. This thing explodes in its consequence in the budget. Mr. Speaker, $840 billion worth of revenue loss in the next decade, just as baby boomers retire and want their Medicare and want their Social Security.
Now, what do my colleagues think is likely? We are going to say, no, baby boomers, we have this estate tax we repealed some time ago, and we are going to stick with it. I do not think so. I think the prospects are overwhelming that this distant repeal will never arrive.
Finally, I think that it just makes it very, very clear what this is all about. To look at the relief we offer in each of the next 5 years being vastly superior to theirs, because they do not want, in any way, to lose some of the momentum behind total repeal. So they will leave family farmers in the lurch through the year 2011; they will leave the small businesses they talk about in
the lurch in the year 2011. Again, look at this: estates $6 million and under; no tax under our proposal in 2004; $3 million and under taxed under their proposal. In 2005, the same situation. Again, we are superior in 2006, 2007 and 2008.
Now, if this Congress has before it the opportunity to give over each of the next 5 years meaningful relief to people that need it, why in the world do we not do it? That is exactly what this substitute is all about.
There is one final feature that I would discuss briefly; it is a feature that I was surprised to hear my friend, the gentlewoman from Washington, tout before the Committee on Rules yesterday, and that is, this notion of who is going to have capital gains tax on inherited property? Because under our proposal, when you inherit the property, the only capital gains tax on the appreciated value of that property you are going to have is between the time you inherited it and the time you sell it. Under their proposal, you are going to face capital gains taxes from the time it was purchased originally, whoever purchased it that ultimately bequeathed it to you in the inheritance.
And so in the family farm context, you have an awful lot of farmland coming into families in the 1930s, in the 1940s at just nominal value, which now has significant value. And when the heir goes to sell it, you are going to have capital gains on all capital appreciation over $1.3 million. We are going to have an awful lot of the family farmers that they are touting so much on this debate that right now do not have estate tax problems, and surely would not have estate tax problems under our bill, that are going to find themselves with walloping capital gains taxes, because they take this stepped up in basis and throw it out for carry-over so that they can help the wealthiest tiny few in this country.
Mr. Speaker, we have a proposal in my substitute to take care of 99.65 percent of the estates in this country. My gosh, that is pretty darn close to perfect, 99.7. But they do not want that relief to move forward, because it is the three-tenths of 1 percent of their wealthiest benefactors that they are most worried about. Well, I say let us deal with this straight up, take what we can get now, provide meaningful relief effective in 2004, pass the Pomeroy substitute, and get this on the road toward exactly what we need: estate tax relief now for America's families.
Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to have my friend and colleague, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Cardin), assist in the management of the time.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Levin).
(Mr. LEVIN asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Vermont (Mr. Sanders).
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, I find it curious that the preceding speakers each making their eloquent speeches on behalf of their family farm constituents, their small business constituents, will oppose the amendment that I have offered that will bring them meaningful relief right now, January 1, 2004.
Mr. Speaker, let me just go through the comparison. If a couple's estate is worth $6 million or less on January 1, 2004, no estate tax under our proposal. Under their proposal, these farms and small businesses with valuations in excess of over $3 million, they are going to have tax under their proposal in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008. There is more relief under our proposal than their proposal.
If they want to protect these estates, they should pass the substitute today; and next year if they want to go ahead and try to pass the repeal, they can go ahead and try. There is no harm in that, take what you can get now and come back and take some more later. That is how we function in this Congress a lot. But they have done something quite different. They say nobody gets any relief until 2011 because at that time the wealthiest three-tenths of 1 percent get to participate fully in the relief as well.
If that is what this is about, let us talk about the three-tenths of 1 percent. But do not put this on family farms or small businesses; or as an earlier speaker said, this estate tax repeal is really about the guy pushing the broom. I do not know too many guys pushing brooms that have estate tax problems. It goes to show really the overblown rhetoric on the other side of the aisle unmatched by any reasonable effort to help now address the estate tax problems they speak so compellingly about.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Seattle, Washington (Mr. McDermott).
(Mr. McDERMOTT asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks, and include extraneous material.)
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
I want to speak for a moment on the question of where rural America is on my amendment. I believe if we ask the farmers of this country today, and I represent a whole lot of farmers in North Dakota, if they would take a proposition where they get $6 million per farm couple estate tax relief, no estate tax if their farm is $6 million or under, or no relief at all until 2011 under the majority proposal, leaving them with exposure over $3 million under their proposal as opposed to $6 million with our proposal, I would be interested in a show of hands on that one.
I have a strong feeling that most would support relief now. In addition to that, we are not used to the notion of capital gains on inherited estates, but I heard the gentlewoman from Washington (Ms. Dunn) talk about the new capital gains feature that is part of their proposal and that it is going to be a good thing because it means you are going to have to keep farming or running that small business because if you sell it, you are going to have capital gains exposure. I do not think that it is a good thing that we suddenly impose capital gains exposure on inherited assets. That is why the stepped-up basis feature of our bill is so important.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the distinguished gentlewoman from California (Ms. Pelosi), our leader. I am so proud of her and so proud she joins the debate on my amendment.
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased that our leader was able to participate in the debate, and am pleased to have the participation of the Speaker of the House in closing for the majority, because I think the issue is of that importance.
The esteemed Speaker of the House, a gentleman I admire greatly, representing the State of Illinois, I reckon is going to tell us something about how we have to do this for family farmers and the small businesses of this country. I think that it is time that family farmers and small businesses have estate tax relief and that is why I have put forward this amendment which brings them estate tax relief effective January 1 of 2004. Again, let us put the rhetoric aside and just look at the facts.
In 2004, these families that they have been talking about, 3 million and over, estate tax liability attaches. A couple, in our side, 6 million liability of taxes. Meaningful relief now, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008. We provide meaningful relief in each of those years beyond what the majority proposes.
I also expect that the Speaker of the House is going to talk a little bit about how we need to do this to get the economy moving again. Let us consider that one because something that takes effect in 2004 is much more related to getting the economy moving again than something that has no effect whatsoever until the year 2011. Consider this date, 2011, which, again, is the first time the majority proposal has any effect. That is five Congresses from now and into the third Presidential term from now. There is nothing we can do to bind action at that time, nothing in the world. We might kid ourselves about it, but what this Congress can do is attend to that in the here and now. That is why I believe it is time we move estate tax relief forward, do it in a meaningful way, do it in a way to provide couples 6 million and under complete freedom from ever having to worry about estate tax again, and if we attach at that number, we will address completely the estate tax concerns of 99.65 percent of the people in this country.
I do not know the definition of universal, but that is getting mighty darn close; and it beats by a mile, in my opinion, leaving people with the estate tax exposure they have until the year 2011.
Here is the danger that we will never get to 2011. This is the cost of the proposal the first 10 years; this is the cost in the next 10 years. I believe there is significant risk 2011 will never be allowed to occur under the majority bill. Let us get relief now. Please vote for my amendment.
Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the ground that a quorum is not present and make the point of order that a quorum is not present.