Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of this amendment is to protect not just Federal lands but private property in the public interest. It would do that by…
Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, the purpose of this amendment is to protect not just Federal lands but private property in the public interest. It would do that by preventing the Department of Interior from going ahead with secret negotiations leading to back-room land deals.
Under those deals, the Department of Interior would issue disclaimers of interest. A disclaimer of interest is like a deed. It gives away the government's claim to an interest in land. For decades, the Department of Interior issued them to people who were on record as owning the lands involved. It was a legal technicality, important for the people involved, but not a tool for changing the management of sensitive Federal lands or creating problems for private landowners.
But a few months ago that changed when the Department of Interior changed its regulations. The new rules give the Department of Interior broad authority to issue disclaimers to parties that would not have been eligible under the old rules, and the Department of Interior has announced it is ready to give those disclaimers to parties seeking them in order to clear the way for building roads.
Congress needs to stop that. We need to rein in the Department of Interior, and we need to do it now. Members can get an idea why by looking at this map here. It shows some of the potential RS-2477 claims just in a part of the California desert that is San Bernardino County. We can see how these claims could slice through national park system lands, wilderness areas, and even Federal lands used for military bases.
Private property is also at risk. This problem is not new, but it is serious. It needs to be resolved, but not the way the Department of Interior wants to resolve it.
When the Interior Department wants to negotiate in secret and then issue the disclaimers I described, it is not taking us down the right path. Instead of making deals, the Bush administration needs to come to Congress for new legislation. That is what this Congress told the Clinton administration when Secretary Bruce Babbitt moved to change the Interior Department's RS 2477 regulations. To make sure that Secretary Babbitt got the message, Congress passed a law that says any new RS 2477 rules must be authorized by Congress. That law is still on the books, and repeating that message is the purpose of my amendment. The best way to resolve this is by enacting new legislation after public hearings and open debate. That is why I have introduced a bill, H.R. 1639, to do just that. My bill would set a deadline, 4 more years, for filing RS 2477 claims. It would establish a fair, open administrative process for handling these claims. And it would set another deadline for any lawsuit challenging the result of that administrative process.
Mr. Chairman, I hoped my amendment would not be necessary tonight. That is why I sent, along with 80 Members, the Secretary a letter on this subject. In our letter we urged Secretary Norton not to try to use the new disclaimer regulations to deal with RS 2477 claims. In short, we warned the Interior Department that it was asking for trouble if it went ahead with its plans. Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, our warning has not been heeded. The Interior Department evidently intends to go full steam ahead. So to protect the public, we need to call a halt by adopting my amendment. Then this issue can be resolved by new legislation. Instead of trying to sidestep the Congress, the administration should work with us. I am certainly ready to work with them; and I believe Chairman Pombo, Ranking Member Rahall, and other members of the Committee on Resources on both sides of the aisle would be willing to do the work that is necessary. But before that can happen, the administration has to change course. That is why we need to adopt this amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
amendment offered by mr. Taylor of north carolina to amendment no. 1
offered by mr. udall of colorado
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Chairman, this amendment may be described as perfecting my amendment, but it really does not do that. My amendment would block the Interior Department from making backroom deals to give away public lands and threaten private landowners. This amendment would say that backroom deals are okay as long as the Interior Department minds its manners while it is making them. The amendment says that there should not be any deals involving the national parks and some other parts of the Federal lands; but it does nothing to protect the national forests, the national trails system, the wild and scenic rivers system or any of the national conservation areas managed by the Bureau of Land Management. Worse, it does nothing at all to protect millions of acres of public lands that deserve protection as wilderness. That includes lands in Colorado, Utah, and other States that would be designated as wilderness under bills that are pending in Congress right now.
Worst of all, the amendment does nothing to protect private lands or the lands owned by States and local governments. RS 2477 is not just about Federal lands. It involves lands that were owned by the Federal Government at one time or another between 1866 and 1976. That is more than 100 years, and it is most of the West. It includes the millions of acres that were homesteaded, given to the States, granted to railroad companies, or claimed under mining laws. My amendment protects those lands from backroom deals. The Taylor amendment does nothing to protect them.
In short, Mr. Chairman, I must oppose this amendment because it does not do what we should do. We need to rein in the Interior Department, not just tell them to play nicely. We need to tell the administration to come to Congress for legislation to resolve the RS 2477 issue. This amendment, although I know it is well-intended, would not do that. It does not cover all of these lands. The amendment is mostly cosmetic, and it falls short of what is needed.
Mr. Chairman, for those reasons, I would urge rejection of the amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman from Colorado (Ms. DeGette).
Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. Grijalva).
Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from Oregon (Mr. DeFazio).
Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the remaining 1 minute.
In closing, I want to make three points. I want to urge the House to preserve its institutional prerogatives to make sure that we are making the law and we are supporting the law we passed in the past by supporting the Udall amendment.
Second, I understand what Utah has done; and there are some good steps forward as my colleague and good friend, the gentleman from Utah (Mr. Bishop), has pointed out. But this is not just about Utah; it is about the entire West and wherever these claims can be made.
Finally, my good friend, the gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Taylor), is on the right track; but under his perfecting amendment, we leave out private lands, military lands, national forest lands, tribal lands, national conservation areas, public lands generally, areas of critical environmental concern, wild and scenic rivers, and national trails, an enormously important list.
Please vote against the Taylor secondary amendment and support the Udall amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I want to thank my friend, the gentleman from Washington (Mr. Dicks), for yielding me time.
I just wanted to respond to my good friend, the gentleman from Alaska (Mr. Young), who I know had great affection for my father and my father had great affection for him.
There is nothing in my amendment that would affect the access rights provided under the Alaska Lands Act, the law that was sponsored by my father, as my good friend, the gentleman from Alaska (Mr. Young), mentioned. There is nothing in this amendment that would affect the access rights; and I take that legislation very seriously and would do everything in my power and will do everything in my power to continue to support, to keep the faith of that language.
I yield to the gentleman from Alaska.
Reclaiming my time, I look forward to discussing that further with the gentleman. I thank him for his comment.
I would urge a yes vote on the Udall amendment, and I rise in opposition to the Taylor second degree amendment.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.