Mr. Speaker, I want to make two points in this 1 minute. Number one, the gentleman who just talked disparaged the Supreme Court because of one decision, that we should not respect that decision. It is the same Supreme Court that 2 years…
Mr. Speaker, I want to make two points in this 1 minute.
Number one, the gentleman who just talked disparaged the Supreme Court because of one decision, that we should not respect that decision. It is the same Supreme Court that 2 years ago arrogated to itself the right to take away from the American people the choice of the Presidency and said do not finish counting the votes, we declare George Bush the President of the United States. That decision has been respected. Though on the merits and on the intellect, that decision belongs in the garbage heap of history because it was not an honest decision, it was not honestly intended. It was a results-oriented decision.
Secondly, the gentleman said that there are Members of this body who are not patriotic as seen by the votes against defense bills. The fact of the matter is, you can vote for a defense bill, you can vote against it based on whether you think that bill is best for your country or not. But to ascribe unpatriotic motives to differences of opinion is to disrespect the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. To ascribe unpatriotic motives to people who differ with you politically is the methodology of a Soviet commissar. It is not an argument that should be heard on this floor. It is an argument that destroys liberty. It destroys freedom of speech.
And whether a particular defense bill was good or too small, or bad or good or deserved to be voted for should be addressed on the merits intellectually and not by disparaging the motives and saying that someone who votes against it is unpatriotic. That argument we could hear from Mr. Stalin, not from someone on this floor.
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, today we are enduring the annual Republican rite of spring, a proposed amendment to the Bill of Rights to restrict what it calls flag desecration.
Why spring? Because the calendar tells us that June 14 is Flag Day, and then, of course, we have July 4. Members need to send out a press release extolling the need to protect the flag, as if the flag needed protection by Congress. We do not see a great epidemic of flag burning. This amendment is truly an answer in search of a problem.
The flag is a symbol of a great Nation and of the fundamental freedoms for which this Nation stands. If the flag needs protection at all, it is from Members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents, and would, in fact, limit those freedoms to protect the symbol.
The argument that we must, for the first time in our Nation's history, amend the Constitution to limit freedom of speech because the flag stands for freedom would sound like a bad joke if the danger to the First Amendment were not so real. I warn my colleagues, once we get into the business of amending the Constitution, every time someone does something we do not like, there will be no end to it. We have never in the 200 years of this country so far, of this Republic, amended the Bill of Rights, and we should not start now.
There is unpopular speech that people find offensive, unpopular religions that people do not like. We had a Member of the House on the floor a few years ago excoriate the Army for allowing a wicked religious service on an Army base. The man with the protest sign in a crowd of people favoring the President and his policies, he was threatened with arrest if he did not leave or get rid of his sign because it did not agree with the other signs. Maybe some of our Republican friends think we need a constitutional amendment for protesting against Republican Presidents. Quite frankly, the crass political use of the flag to question the patriotism of those who value our fundamental freedoms is a greater insult to those who died in the service of our Nation than even the burning of the flag. It is the civic equivalent of taking the Lord's name in vain.
People have rights in this country that supersede public opinion, even strongly held public opinion. If we do not preserve those rights, the flag would have been desecrated far beyond the capability of any individual with a cigarette lighter. Let there be no doubt, this amendment is aimed directly at unpopular political ideas.
Current Federal law says that the preferred way to dispose of a tattered and old flag is to burn it, but there are those who would criminalize the same act if it was done to express political dissent. So if you burn the flag, if you physically burn the flag while standing around saying nice things, pleasant things, platitudes about patriotism, then that is a wonderful thing to do. But if you burn the flag while criticizing the conduct of the current administration or some political decision, then you will be arrested.
Is the act of burning the flag any different in those two instances? No. What is different is the words said in association with it. In one instance, the words are pleasant and nice and therefore protected by the First Amendment; and in the other instance, the words are unpleasant and disagreeable and, therefore, we are going to pass a constitutional amendment to throw someone in jail for uttering the wrong words while he burns the flag, because if he uttered the nice words while he burned the flag, that would be the correct way of disposing of the flag.
Clearly, the Supreme Court was right, it is the expression of unpopular political opinions that this amendment is aimed at, and that is why this amendment should not be passed because we should protect the right to utter all opinions in this country, even those we think are harmful because bad ideas should be driven out of the arena of public opinion by good ideas, not by repression by the State or by the police. That is why we have the Bill of Rights, and that is why this amendment should not pass.
One other example, and that is if someone produced a movie or play in which actors impersonated Nazi soldiers, and during the course of that play, the Nazi soldiers trampled on the flag to show the contempt the Nazis had for freedom and the United States, no one would think of arresting the actors because they know they did not mean it. They would know they were showing what Nazis thought of the flag and the United States, not what the actors think. So it is clearly the ideas associated with the act of desecrating the flag, it is the speech that we are criminalizing here, and that is why the Supreme Court was right to say we cannot criminalize speech.
We heard in the hearings conducted before the Committee on the Judiciary from a Vietnam veteran who has been in a wheelchair for the last 30 years as a result of his combat wounds in Vietnam. He made clear he did not want his sacrifice to be used to destroy the freedoms for which he fought and for which many of his friends made the ultimate sacrifice. I would urge my colleagues to listen to all veterans and understand that those who support this amendment do not speak for all veterans.
General Colin Powell, for example, had this to say about this amendment a few years ago, ``The First Amendment exists to ensure that freedom of speech and expression applies not just to that with which we agree or disagree, but also that which we find outrageous. I would not amend that great shield of democracy to hammer a few miscreants. The flag will be flying proudly long after they have slunk away.''
Jim Warner, a Vietnam veteran and prisoner of the North Vietnamese from October 1967 to March 1973, wrote, ``The fact is, the principles for which we fought, for which our comrades died, are advancing everywhere upon the earth, while the principles against which we fought are everywhere discredited and rejected. The flag burners have lost, and their defeat is the most fitting and thorough rebuke of their principles which the human mind could devise. Why do we need to do more? An act intended merely as an insult is not worthy of our fallen comrades. It is the sort of thing our enemies did to us, but we are not them, and we must conform to a different standard. Now, when the justice of our principles is everywhere vindicated, the cause of human liberty demands that this amendment be rejected. Rejecting this amendment would not mean that we agree with those who burn our flag, or even that they have been forgiven. It would, instead, tell the world that freedom of expression means freedom, even for those expressions we find repugnant.''
I would add that rejection of this amendment would mean that we understand that democracy in the United States and our protection of freedom of expression in the United States is stronger than the ill will and the venom that motivates people who might desecrate our flag, and that we do not need a constitutional amendment to protect us against them.
These thoughts are echoed by Terry Anderson, a former U.S. Marine staff sergeant and Vietnam veteran who was held hostage in Lebanon, who wrote:
``This constitutional amendment is an extremely unwise restriction of every American's constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the first amendment protects symbolic acts under its guarantee of free speech. Burning or otherwise damaging a flag is offensive to many, including me, but it harms no one and is so obviously an act of political speech that I'm amazed anyone could disagree with the Court.''
Mr. Speaker, people have died for this Nation and the rights which this flag so proudly represents. Let us not destroy the freedoms and the way of life for which they made the ultimate sacrifice. Let us not demean our freedoms. Let us not demean our country. Let us not for the first time in the history amend the Bill of Rights to say we cannot be trusted with that freedom. Let us not pass this amendment.
Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 4\1/2\ minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Scott).
Mr. Speaker, I yield 3\1/2\ minutes to the distinguished gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Jackson-Lee).
Mr. Speaker, I yield 5 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. Snyder).
Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 minute to the distinguished gentleman from Texas (Mr. Green).
Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to yield 3 minutes to the distinguished gentlewoman from Indiana (Ms. Carson).
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself 30 seconds.
Mr. Speaker, last year this House and the other body and the President all cooperated in passing legislation to improve campaign financing techniques. Some people say that regulated speech. What it did was regulate expenditures of money. Many people do not consider money as speech. It is a different issue.
Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Tennessee (Mr. Tanner).
(Mr. TANNER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. Jones).
(Mrs. JONES of Ohio asked and was given permission to revise and extend her remarks.)
Mr. Speaker, I yield 5 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from New York (Mr. Ackerman).
(Mr. ACKERMAN asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
Mr. Speaker, I yield 4\1/2\ minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Hoyer), the minority whip.
(Mr. HOYER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)
Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Marshall).
Mr. Speaker, how much time do I have left, please?
Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. Speaker, first let me comment on what was just said by the distinguished gentleman from Texas, by reading an article written by a prisoner of war named James Warner. He wrote in ``The Retired Officer'' on September of 1989 of his experience as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. He writes as follows:
``We could subvert them,'' meaning his torturers, the North Vietnamese, ``by teaching them about freedom through our example. We could show them the power of ideas. I did not appreciate this power before I was a prisoner of war. I remember one interrogation, where I was shown a photograph of some Americans protesting the war by burning a flag. There, the officer,'' that is the enemy officer, ``there, the officer said, people in your country protest against your cause. That proves that you are wrong. No, I said, that proves that I am right. In my country we are not afraid of freedom, even if it means that people disagree with us. The officer was on his feet in an instant, his face purple with rage. He smashed his fist onto a table and screamed at me to shut up. While he was ranting, I was astonished to see pain, compounded by fear in his eyes. I have never forgotten that look, nor have I forgotten the satisfaction I felt at using his tool, the picture of the burning flag, against him.''
That is the close of the quote from this article from ``The Retired Officer'' by James Warner, former prisoner of war in Vietnam.
Mr. Speaker, the truth of the matter is we have heard today that desecration of the flag ought to be made unconstitutional because it is not valid speech. True, the first amendment is not absolute. We do not allow people to yell fire in a crowded theater unless there is evidence that there is a real fire. The Supreme Court ruled that many years ago. But the core protection of the first amendment is for ideas, for outrageous ideas, for obnoxious ideas, for ideas that we find horrible and offensive and dangerous.
Our philosophy, what makes this country different and unique, is that this country is built on a foundation, the foundation being the belief in freedom, in liberty, in the fact that, not always the case but we fervently believe in the fact that good ideas will drive out of the marketplace of bad ideas; that good speech will defeat bad speech. And we do not legislate against bad speech; we do not legislate against speech that we disagree with or find outrageous.
Now, we have heard, of course, that we are not talking about speech here, we are talking about expressive acts. But the fact of the matter is, again, we are talking about speech. We are talking about speech that people are frightened of and outraged about because it offends them. Because, again, the very acts we would be outlawing or permitting Congress to outlaw with this amendment would not, by anybody's stretch of the imagination, be outlawed unless accompanied by the wrong speech.
Again, as the gentleman from Virginia earlier today told us, and as I mentioned in my opening remarks, the recommended manner, recommended by the law, of disposing of a flag is to burn it. So, again, if you burn the flag, and while you burn it you say respectful things, that is wonderful. But if you burn the flag while saying what a terrible policy the current administration is following or if you burn the flag while saying what a terrible policy we are conducting and that we do not like this country, then we would make that criminal. Why? Not because the act of the flag burning is any different than when it was done with respectful words, but because in the one case the words were respectful and in the other case the words were obnoxious.
I agree the words are obnoxious. But the whole idea of freedom is to protect obnoxious words, especially obnoxious words or words that I or you may regard as obnoxious, though someone else may regard as fine and intelligent. That is their privilege. That is what freedom is about. The freedom of speech is not freedom for what we agree with, but freedom for what we find outrageous. Not just disagreeable, but outrageous.
When someone criticizes our country and says the war we are fighting is wrong, or the conduct of our troops is terrible, or whatever they may say that we may find disagreeable, outrageous and horrible, the glory of this country is that we give them the freedom to say it. And when someone burns a flag, and again there is no epidemic of flag burning, this amendment is really directed not at an existent problem, or has not existed really in the last 30 years of any size, but when you burn a flag and say respectful things, that is okay, because the law says that is okay; but when you burn a flag and say disrespectful things, that is not okay, what these circumstances say and that what we are really legislating against is the speech and not the act.
The act, accompanied by the right circumstances, would never be outlawed. We would not prosecute people who desecrated the flag as part of a movie or a play when they were portraying enemy soldiers, Nazi soldiers, or Chinese soldiers in the Korean War, because we do not think they mean it. What do they not mean? The speech. It is the ideas and the speech that we are outlawing by such an amendment. That is at the core of protected speech, at the core of the first amendment, at the core of the values we are supposed to hold dear. And that is why this amendment is so wrongheaded and ought not to be adopted.
Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of my time.